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General: Insulating around lights

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1 to 21 of 21

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    Hi all,
    I've just topped up the insulation in our new flat. The ceiling lights below the loft are those little halogen(?) things that are all the rage, and in the loft they're all covered by a metal bin (as shown in photo). I laid the insulation on top of these bins, but wanted to double check if anyone thought there might be a fire risk. The bins are about 5" high and most already had quite a bit of insulation on top. The house is in Sweden just in case anyone wondered. I'll post a piccy of the light next.
    Thanks
    Mini
      light-cover.JPG
  2.  
    Picture of light
      light.JPG
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeSep 9th 2012
     
    Yes there is a fire risk, Especially from the wires getting hot and melting, wires need to well away from the fitting and the ones that go the fitting need to be heat and fire resistant, silicone etc.

    The risk is low by the look of it in your case but real

    Are the metal covers air tight?
  4.  
    And are the light fittings vapour-tight?
    • CommentAuthornikhoward
    • CommentTimeSep 9th 2012
     
    Always keep cables on top of insulation to keep them cooler and loose the halogens ASAP to replace with CF or LED
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeSep 9th 2012
     
    Also to consider is that if you later put LEDs in those fittings they'll run hot which will likely shorten their lives.
    • CommentAuthornikhoward
    • CommentTimeSep 9th 2012
     
    Posted By: Ed DaviesAlso to consider is that if you later put LEDs in those fittings they'll run hot which will likely shorten their lives.



    Sorry, meant change the fittings completely, not a fan of retro fittings LEDs into old housings. Alternative and cheapest - we mainly use lamps with CFs in.
    • CommentAuthorminisaurus
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2012
     
    Thanks all, sorry I think they might be LED not halogen - i haven't got a clue actually. The covers seem fairly air-tight - there are rubber seals around the wires, but you can just lift them up. Haven't got a clue about vapour tight - I'm guessing they were installed to the current Swedish regs - Swedes don't usually cut corners
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2012
     
    Is that polystyrene insulation, if it is then it will 'eat' the insulation on the cables very quickly.
    I know you are in Sweden, but I am sure your electrical rules are similar to ours (Part P). They have tables about adding insulation over cables, look them up.
    • CommentAuthorSeret
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2012 edited
     
    LEDs would have lots of little dots of light minisaurus. From your pics it looks like yours have a single filament. That means they're halogens. Very power hungry, very hot. Switch to LEDs and almost all of your heat problem goes away. You can get LEDs in the same sizes as the common halogen spots (GU10, MR11, etc), although you'll need to put in LED drivers even if it's already a low voltage circuit.

    After doing that you wouldn't need those massive cans. I just used the smallest flower pot I could find on mine. I've sealed mine above, the ventilation into the room below should be able to handle the 1.5W mine give off.
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2012
     
    Posted By: SeretYou can get LEDs in the same sizes as the common halogen spots (GU10, MR11, etc), although you'll need to put in LED drivers even if it's already a low voltage circuit.


    But many of us have simply bought GU10 LEDS and replaced the bulbs. No wory about drivers. And once they're replaced with LED or CFL (worth trying a couple of each to see, we couldn't find a CFL that did a nice job but our 4w warm white LEDS are great) then it all runs so much cooler I would stop worrying about the insulation around the cans.

    As other have said you do need to keep you cables on the cool side where possible and avoid contact with polysterence unless the cable is made from LSZH (low smoke zero halogen) which does not react.

    Please note I'm not an electrician!

    RobinB
    • CommentAuthorminisaurus
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2012
     
    Thanks all - no not polystyrene - Gulull - felt a bit like less scratchy mineral wool. I'm more worried about these bins and not too worried about the cables - they're all sheathed (see picture) so I'm assuming these sheaths are what is acceptable in Sweden. Should I be more worried about the cables?
    We'll try LEDS or even just use normal ceiling lamps, but the next people might put halogen in, so I don't want to leave a hazard. How can I check if the wires are heat and fire resistant?
    Mini
      cable-cover.JPG
    • CommentAuthorSeret
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2012
     
    How big is that conduit?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2012 edited
     
    Looks like it is an inch, though I am not sure what the Swedes use to measure in, possibly Volvo bumper deflection after hitting an Elk :wink:
    • CommentAuthorminisaurus
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2012
     
    Less than inch, 20mm. Swedes still talk about inches (thumbs) 2 by 4 and they even used to drive on the left!
  16.  
    Hungary also uses inches, iron pipework is all in inches although they lost the plot somewhere as 1 1/4 is known as 5/4s, 1 1/2 as 6/4s and so on. They also used to drive on the left. - Some still do after they have left their wine cellar.:devil:
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2012 edited
     
    Most countries in the world drive on the left, odd really.

    Inch and a quarter is sometimes called a 'big inch'
    • CommentAuthornikhoward
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2012
     
    3/4 inch or 1 1/4 inch are standard pipe sizes world over, as is the thread - BSP (British Standard Pipe)
    • CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 11th 2012
     
    SteamyTea wrote: "Most countries in the world drive on the left, odd really."

    Not according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-_and_left-hand_traffic they don't.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 11th 2012
     
    "Today about 66.1% of the world's people live in right-hand traffic countries and 33.9% in left-hand traffic countries."
    That is population, how about countries? :wink:
    • CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 12th 2012
     
    Posted By: SteamyTea"Today about 66.1% of the world's people live in right-hand traffic countries and 33.9% in left-hand traffic countries."
    That is population, how about countries?

    Look at the lists of left and right-hand traffic countries on that page. Or count them, if you wish.

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