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Housing - New Build: Big timber frame walls

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2012
     
    Some friends want to build some walls in 6x2 lying down, insulate them, clad them and lift them into position.

    They are 10m and 20m long, what is the longest module that could be lifted without breaking it?

    assume clad with OSB laid brick bond, then on the other side quilt between the studs, sheet insulation, building paper, battens and weatherboarding. and 3m high.

    any views?
  2.  
    Why do it laying down? Surely it's easy enough to erect them in-place. Plus they won't have any 20m long 2x6s anyway. Or are they planning on building off-site and then lifting them in? I've seen modular (pre-manufactured) homes use panels that are probably of the order of 6m long - but that's more for convenience in transport. Anyway, once the OSB is in place, they'll be strong.

    Paul in Montreal.
  3.  
    Traditional way would be to make the 2x6 frame on the ground, lift them into place and then insulate, clad etc. built in 5/6m sections (dont need 20m length of 2x6)
    Cant see the adavantage of doing all that work before they are lifted for a 3m high wall. only real advantage would be if it was a high wall.
    • CommentAuthorCav8andrew
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2012
     
    How would you do this. Surely it would involve laying one or other face fix sheeting/cladding down first (OSB presumably). Firstly this implies that you have an area at least 20m x 3m that is very flat and even but how would you mechanically fix this to the frame, unless the whole unit is flipped mid build ?. The normal practice would be to come through the face of the OSB into your 6x2 frame, glueing seems the only option to me with face fixing once lifted. Curious to know why they would want to build in this manner and am I completely misunderstanding the proposed construction.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2012
     
    All volunteer labour and H&S considerations added eo ease of construction working flat and a free crane!
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2012
     
    Yes something sounds very wrong, even deliberate?
    • CommentAuthorqeipl
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2012
     
    If building off a floor slab (done all the time here) the flat area is available.
    With lots of free labour flipping the panels over once the OSB is nailed on won't be hard to do.
    With a free crane lifting the panels when fully assembled shouldn't be too difficult.

    It's common the build 'the kit' on site using the floor slab as a work surface. If the panel gets too long it can be a bit floppy, which would be my only concern.

    A 10m length being lifted in the middle by a crane with people helping at either end is plausible. 20m sounds like trouble. Double 6 x 2 x 4.8m head binders with the joints well staggered will help to stiffen the thing for lifting.
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2012
     
    ^ As above really.

    It should be no issue to use the foundation slab (assuming there is a slab of some sort) to build the frames on. It should also be possible to flip a 10m panel by hand once the sheathing is on.

    20m is still do-able but flopply!

    What penetrations are present? You could build 6 identical 10m panels and join two to make the 20m walls. If there are only penetrations on one side, you can build 4 identical panels and then two different ones with openings.

    Anything is possible really but I actually don't see that much advantage to cladding on the ground. Sounds like a recipe for bad backs! I personally would rather clad the walls once standing. Insulating and breather membrane is certianly easier with panels flat, so do that, but perhaps leave the cladding off.
    • CommentAuthorCav8andrew
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2012 edited
     
    qeipl, Interesting to see its quite a common practice, wasn't aware such large runs as 10m were built in this way. What is the advantage versus building in position, is it generally the effects of gravity working for you rather than against when positioning panels/sheets etc.
    Just seen your comments Timber which answer the points.
    • CommentAuthorqeipl
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2012
     
    Posted By: Cav8andrewqeipl, Interesting to see its quite a common practice, wasn't aware such large runs as 10m were built in this way. What is the advantage versus building in position, is it generally the effects of gravity working for you rather than against when positioning panels/sheets etc.
    Just seen your comments Timber which answer the points.


    Building panels on the flat might be a bit quicker than building the frame in situ and then adding the sheathing but I think the main advantage is that the pre-built panels can be assembled very quickly into a rigid structure which is much less vulnerable to the wind (always the enemy here).

    I agree with Timber about the sore back (and knees) when working on the flat.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2012
     
    Thanks guys, looks like cladding after lunch then, it will be a kind of old world barn raising session, flowed by food etc
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2012
     
    Like this then:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmHbu2VC6UA

    He is a pretty good carpenter as well.
    • CommentAuthorfuncrusher
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2012
     
    No mention of the destination: presumably bungalow wall? These will be ridgid if held upright, and break up if horizontal. I recommend you don't lift with crane but use barn-raising method. Start bottom edge of wall panel in final position, secure ropes at 3m intervals to top edge and get 20 volunteers to heave simultaneously upright. Beware wind, and make sure you have further ropes /props with volunteers to stabilise in upright position. or it will simple fall flat again, possibly crushing people. With barn-raising they pull up the wooden FRAMES of the entire barn in one go, then stabilise with temporary diagonals before cladding.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2012
     
    Any method statement will come up with a no no wont it?

    And for barn raising too :(
  15.  
    My timber frame gable walls were 11m long and there was no problem craning them into place. The front and rear walls are 14m long and these were split into 10m & 4m sections but the reason for this was getting them on the trailer rather than any limits imposed by the crane.

    The wall sections were fully complete 2.5m tall, 6 x 2 framework insulated with mineral wool, bitumen faced board battened & calcium silicate board on the outside and with plasterboard on the internal surface all external doors and triple glazed windows pre-fitted so very heavy but also structurally stable.

    No idea what the upper limit of length is for craning but can confirm that it is greater than 11m!
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2012
     
    Thanks all, with the necessity to clad removed the walls can be built in sections and so it has all become easy.

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