Are low building costs the best thing to aim at? They all go for them, the big builders, local authorities, HMG, commercial and domestic clients. almost everyone.

I do too and keeping costs down seems to be what everyone wants.

BUT what about in use costs, why aren't these considered at the time of building? The more insulation that goes in at the time of building the less it will cost to run the building, yet this is not factored in.

We spend a lot of effort trying to reduce new build (or refurb) costs without looking at the bigger picture, WHY?

Tony,

we keep on going over this subject. The problem is three fold in my opinion

1. Building land is far too expensive.
2. Effective quality insulation is far too expensive. The recent thread on shrinkage of insulation really shocked me. I mean you spend a fortune and lots of effort to get a really tight, draught free fit and the insulation and tapes fail inside a short time. Might as well use loft roll insulation in the walls and make sure the internal and external barriers are good.
3. General building knowledge and working standards standards amongst the trades is just no where near good enough especially amongst the bigger building companies.
4.People only seem interested in detached housing even though these are expensive and a waste of space.


The solution would be:

1. Capping building land prices if certain types of housing is built. (terrace & Town houses)
2. Making EWI the norm on all new builds and alterations to existing buildings.
3. Encouraging the building of terrace/town housing.
4. Stop the building of detached housing in urban areas.
5. Introduction of apprenticeship schemes teaching good building practice with the hope that as the apprentices start their own companies it will force up standards.
6. Introduction of a set of standard shell and floor schemes which have automatic approval from planners/BCO where the owner can decide the internal layout.

Jonti

Jonti
The land price issue is rather secondary to the build cost. The only way if effects the build cost is if thicker walls are used (reducing internal space or requiring more land). An economist may well argue correctly that if all building plots are sold then they were too cheap, an accountant won't though.

Totally agree with 6 though, totally barmy that each architect and builder re-invents the wheel every time they build something. My first post was about this, but it got bogged down in the wrong details.

Having started my working life in a boat yard it still amazes me that we make leaky housing and use outdated (traditional) materials that are often inappropriate for the application.

I can understand that the ground work/services is different, but not the rest for any categorised climate regime.
So to take the car analogy, you get 'city' cars at one end and utility vehicles at the other end. In the middle, and as top gear often shows with the cheap car challenge, you get ones that do most things reasonably well.

So all those catalogue timber frame houses that they deliver in the USA and erect on site in about 6 weeks cost more and under perform compared to two men and his dog building 'a high quality designer home' then.

Have to agree with Fostertom here. Many, many times I have worked with businesses and people who want to develope the killer house or building design which can be copy and pasted onto every project they have coming in, with the aim of saving developement, engineering, architecture costs etc.

Each time at the outset I try and explain that every site/client/project is different and that its never that easy. Even if you have a template design, you will always need to adapt it for one reason or another. All falls on deaf ears.

Result? months developing projects to be copy and pasted, which in the end get tailored to the individual projects anyway. With modern CAD/BIM software its just as easy to start from scratch for each project and tailor the design as needed.

Posted By: tonyAre low building costs the best thing to aim at? ..................................................................We spend a lot of effort trying to reduce new build (or refurb) costs without looking at the bigger picture, WHY?

Because for many, too many, the "own your house" UK housing market is geared around buying cheap, living in it for a few years, and then selling, profiting, and moving on and up. Houses are as much investment items as they are homes, unfortunately. Build quality is not top of the list. The mobile workforce plays into this too. Maybe the answer is to build disposable houses and have done with it,--or trailer parks.

Posted By: Jontiit is a hell of a lot cheaper than the advised alternative which shrinks

A gd alternative is blown-in cellulose fibre (newsprint!) - Warmcel. It blows into every crevice, which neither boards nor quilt will, and it's under slight compression, so it stays tight to its surroundings. It's water vapour breatheable but fairly airtight, it's hygroscopic and it sequesters carbon unoxidised. Good stuff. Icynene is quite different but has comparable properties once installed.

Posted By: fostertom

Posted By: Jontiit is a hell of a lot cheaper than the advised alternative which shrinks

A gd alternative is blown-in cellulose fibre (newsprint!) - Warmcel. It blows into every crevice, which neither boards nor quilt will, and it's under slight compression, so it stays tight to its surroundings. It's water vapour breatheable but fairly airtight, it's hygroscopic and it sequesters carbon unoxidised. Good stuff. Icynene is quite different but has comparable properties once installed.

FosterTom,

informative response which I found interesting and much better than your first as it brought something positive to the discussion. What are the draw backs of this method if any? Do, you use this a lot?

PaulJ,

that big builders have used the same design for many properties is true however I feel you are looking at the situation all wrong.

Firstly, the designs used by big builders is their own not one from the state. They use the same few as it is easier for them and they are not concerned with the overall look of the housing estates. This is coupled with the fact that the more choice you give consumers the harder they find it to make a choice as they will always find things on another product also desirable. As a seller with 100 units to sell it is better to have just 2 choices than 50.

Secondly, big builders are looking to spend the minimum on a build and to have the houses built in the shortest time meaning higher risk of poor quality.

Thirdly, what looks bad is street after street of the same design of detached house. If they were semi-detached it would look much better and terrace/town houses would look just fine so it is the type of house and not the similarity that is the problem.

Most self build people are looking for something different to the houses around the plot and so if given the choice of several hundred different designs you would rarely see two house the same next to each other.

Jonti

Posted By: JontiSteamyTea,

In some areas the plot can be over half the total costs. It seems crazy to me that it might cost £100K for the plot and then only £75K for the build especially if the land is only worth a fraction of this farmland.

Jonti

You're looking at it backwards!

The price of the house is set by what the market is prepared to pay for it. The historical position (not current) of dual incomes, lack of supply and readily available, cheap credit has pushed the prices up and up. (No-one wants to admit that they have over-paid for their house, so the prices don't come back down again much.)

You then take the build cost off the house price and what is left is the value of the land with planning permission.

Since build costs haven't gone up as much as house prices (ignoring the last couple of years) the land value has increased much faster than would normally be expected. Hence the councils trying to get a slice of the pie in social charges etc. for granting planning permission that turns a farmer's field into a plot.