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  1.  
    Is there anyone on here who has completed external wall insulation and monitored what happened to their bills and so hopefully can work out roughly what they actually save? There seems to be a dearth of actual post-completion (energy meter reading based) information on this...
  2.  
    I haven't read any. In my view the theory is so good though that it is unnecessary.

    It has to be the closest scenario to either steady state [basic u-value] calculation or dynamic simulation. I've done both and the predicted sayings are huge. No reason to doubt they would be otherwise provided installation is in accordance with best practice.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2012 edited
     
    Jobs I've done it on it's been in conjunction with other improvement so differcult to say exact effect even if monitoring energy bills etc.
    How about looking at retro fit cavity wall fill and see whats out there for this regarding post install monitoring.
    EWI should be at least similar and hopefully better.
    Certainly Passivhaus using EWI in germany etc. have lived in for over 10 years and are functioning
    •  
      CommentAuthorikimiki
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2012
     
    I am part of a university-based research project under which we would very much like to explore undertaking just this sort of before-after monitoring.

    Is there anyone out there planning to install EWI next summer? Let's gather a list!
  3.  
    I'd be very interested. Though next summer may be a tough ask at the moment. Where are you based ikimiki?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2012
     
    Me too! West country, me.
    • CommentAuthormattwprice
    • CommentTimeSep 24th 2012
     
    I might be doing the same in conjunction with my neighbour but may well combine it with a loft conversion so I think next summer may well be a little early for my budget unfortunately.
    •  
      CommentAuthorikimiki
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2012
     
    Great!

    We (on the project team) are Lancashire-based; but travelling isn't a problem.

    It seems we are all planning well ahead. :-)
    • CommentAuthornikhoward
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2012
     
    Posted By: ikimikiI am part of a university-based research project under which we would very much like to explore undertaking just this sort of before-after monitoring.

    Is there anyone out there planning to install EWI next summer? Let's gather a list!


    yes
    • CommentAuthornikhoward
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2012
     
    Posted By: nikhoward
    Posted By: ikimikiI am part of a university-based research project under which we would very much like to explore undertaking just this sort of before-after monitoring.

    Is there anyone out there planning to install EWI next summer? Let's gather a list!


    yes


    and cornwall
    • CommentAuthorseascape
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2012
     
    I know someone in Cornwall who had it done on a detached bungalow. I could ask them if they kept meter readings if you like - let me know.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2012 edited
     
    There is a real serious problem with before and after monitoring, this leads to the NIBE fiasco and other problems.
    I am about to embark on a 3 year study of energy use (all going well) and I have found it very difficult to convince people that they need to know where they are before they do any improvements. What is the saying, 'marry in haste, repent at leisure'.
    Over the last few years I have kept all my bills, though only this year have I kept weekly readings (I have logged data for the last couple of years though, just need sorting out), I know when I did improvement and what they are.
    Now the caveat, human behaviour makes the biggest difference, it can account for up to 40% difference in energy use, but even if it is 20%, that variation will swamp most improvements made. This leads to a statistical nightmare (an area I work in), this is why I do little experiments to establish whether what I think is happening actually does. Though these are limited in scope, have scalability problems and the logging equipment is not of the greatest precision and accuracy, it does show what is happening and one can quickly determine (within a month usually) if something is a success (does what I thought) or a failure (does something else or nothing).
    What I would say, for those that are seriously considering this as an area to study is to get some cheap temp loggers and a cheap 3 channel energy meter and start keeping records. Weather data is easy to get hold of generally, so compensating for that is easy enough. What would be really good is to embed some sensors in a wall (tempted to do this soon, only involves a bit of drilling and sealant), then monitor with different levels of EWI fitted over the area. Cheap and pretty definitive if done right, could easily be done over the nest 6 to 7 months and may well give us all a better idea.
    Anyone up for that?
    • CommentAuthoran02ew
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2012
     
    Posted By: fostertomMe too! West country, me.


    Spoken like a true wurzle
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2012
     
    You should hear them down 'ere me hansom
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2012
     
    Me west country, you taxi?
    •  
      CommentAuthorikimiki
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2012
     
    I was thinking of something along these lines http://wirelesstags.myshopify.com/
    for room, wall and window temps, combined with matching radiator temp readings.

    Aim: as close to 'fully sensored' as one can economically achieve.

    This way one is looking at the performance of the building conditional on behaviour (how much heat one is pumping into each room).

    The 'neat' thing about the above-mentioned system is that one can even log the movement of shutters, doors, and more.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2012
     
    Is there a UK stockist?
    Could easily see it cost £2-300 a house.
    Have you decided exactly what you want to measure and why?
    •  
      CommentAuthorikimiki
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2012
     
    Well, the others on the project are "ubicomp" computer scientists. Sensing is part of what they do.

    The objective of this strand of work would be to plug the above-identified paucity of longitudinal combined temperature and energy-behaviour mapping, spanning the winter before EWI and the winter after EWI.
  4.  
    I have collected heating data from my retrofit of a detached bungalow near Shrewsbury. Comparisons are difficult because of different weather conditions, unless you got these inputs and for our retrofit a range of measures were applied.
    Before the retrofit we used 13645KWh of Gas per year, the following year with most retrofit measures, ie triple glazing, airtight membranes, MVHR, solar thermal in place we used 7736KWh and last year with 100mm EWI (phenolic) in place we got to 5640KWH.
    I hope this gives an indication of changes of fuel use.
    By the way we have dealt with all segments of our 1950's bungalow apart from the solid floors.
  5.  
    for some before and after data on refurbs see http://retrofitforthefuture.org/
    is your's chippy , i know it's someone who posts here.
    http://retrofitforthefuture.org/viewproject.php?id=270#graphs
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeSep 25th 2012
     
    ikimiki
    Have you seen this thread:
    http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=8160&page=1

    I think there is another one with a circuit diagram and code on it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorikimiki
    • CommentTimeSep 26th 2012
     
    Hi Steamy "T",

    Yes, I came across that thread. It's a nice implementation.

    But for instrumenting up one or more houses, I gravitate toward the http://wirelesstags.myshopify.com/ type of system because of (i) no wires means easy, constraint-free sensoring, (ii) ease of scalability, with up to 255 sensors on a single wireless tag manager, (iii) continual, automatic upload 'to the cloud' is possible, without further hardware.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2012
     
    Posted By: ikimikiBut for instrumenting up one or more houses, I gravitate toward the http://wirelesstags.myshopify.com/ type of system

    I just had a look at that site. It says they don't yet have European approval. I'm not a radio expert but it also appears to have both a wider frequency range and a different channel spacing than is legal in the UK; I don't know whether that is a problem or not. It operates on a band that is shared by radio hams, so I guess any problems would be caught quite quickly.
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