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Posted By: rhamduHow can we exploit ideas of thermodynamic efficiency, entropy, free energy, exergy - whatever - in the design, construction and use of buildings?
Posted By: SteamyTeaMaybe the traditional house that is longer than it is wide is an old model that needs rethinking.
Posted By: Paul in Montrealas a standard lot size here was 25x110 feet
Posted By: rhamduhere we are on planet Earth, astride a mighty energy-flow, from the sun's surface at 6000K to the depths of space at 3K
Posted By: SteamyTeaStorage seems to be the key, with long term storage being the holy grail.New housing could/should, as far as possible be orientated to take full advantgae of local solar conditions. Hard in practice without designing towns and cites on a grid system, but I am sure the artistic amongst us may be able to sort this one.
Posted By: rhamduDjh pointed out that the term 'exergy' is widely used
Posted By: barneyGenerally the one thing we should avoid doing.
Posted By: barneytake something simple like glass manufacture - how do we do it ?
Posted By: barneyFor sure we have an emerging (or maybe a re-emerging knowledge) of how to harness solar energy - but only at a very basic level - to go further needs technology that previous generations never had.
Posted By: barneyright back to us living in real caves, we've burnt something for heat, light, food preparation, security and well being. Generally we've burnt carbon - we are almost genetically programmed to do so
Posted By: barneyPersonally speaking, I'm all for passive solar...
Posted By: Ed DaviesPosted By: barneyPersonally speaking, I'm all for passive solar...I'm not, for exactly the reasons which are the subject of this thread. Passive solar tends to collect heat in a rather low-grade (i.e., low-temperature) form making storage and control more difficult whereas active solar thermal (solar collectors rather than large windows) gives you higher temperatures with increased flexibility of use.
Posted By: Ed Davies... heat in a rather low-grade (i.e., low-temperature) form making storage and control more difficult
Posted By: Ed Davies... whereas active solar thermal (solar collectors rather than large windows) gives you higher temperatures with increased flexibility of use
Posted By: barneyif we are going to heat molten tin (and keep it molten) for float glass production
Posted By: barneywe need to throw, again, vast resources at buildings (and at the component manufacture for buildings) that could easily outweigh the demand reductions we are trying to achieve
Posted By: renewablejohnthe Infra Red spectrum is used for heating the thermal oil
Posted By: djhPassive solar is much cheaper than active solar because you have to have windows anyway, so you may as well optimise the solar gain from them.
Posted By: fostertomNot necessarily higher, but higher temps do enable lazier but wasteful solutions.
Posted By: Ed DaviesHowever, once you have enough for reasonable light levels, a view and means of escape I'd dispute that extra window area (with greater cost than plain wall and greater heat losses when the sun is not shining) is much, if at all, cheaper overall than the marginal cost of extra solar collectors beyond those needed for DHW anyway.Whatever, I think the cost differential between active and passive is often exaggerated while at the same time the difference in value of high- vs low-grade heat is discounted.
Posted By: fostertomHowever it's true that the embodied input is 'now', when the planet can least tolerate it, while the savings are spread over the next 30, 80 or 200yrs. It's not a lack of technology or organisational ability, just a matter of fossil-profit interests hence lack of will and priority - does the govt want to create a new mass-employment serious-retrofit industry or not? Apparently not.
Posted By: djhI don't think it's a question of whether the government wants to create a new mass-employment serious-retrofit industry or not. It's a question of whether they can find a way to pay for one
Posted By: barneyWell Tom, I guess you've never been involved in glass production or you would realise the futility of that statement
Posted By: barneyThe high cost items are energy in the furnace ...
Posted By: barney... and the molten tin float pond ...
Posted By: barney... and the soda ash used in the glass
Posted By: fostertomPosted By: renewablejohnthe Infra Red spectrum is used for heating the thermal oilto that temp right thro Dec/Jan? Really? If not 100% sufficient thro Dec/Jan then you still need boiler etc.
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