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Housing - Renovation: And they're off - British Gas offers Green Deal assessments

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2012 edited
     
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2012 edited
     
    The Golden rule : the payments made for the improvements cannot be higher than the estimated energy bill savings they will make

    I cant see how this is going to work
    Solar thermal wont pass it
    PV and other tech wont unless you included FITS or RHI
    Gas is still the cheapest way to heat your home if available
    Will ASHP/GSHP win over oil condensing boilers
    Insulation companies are struggling to fufil CERTS quotas for Loft and cavity walls insulation ( because most who will have it , have it? ) Will people pay the full price for it (even with a cheap loan)
    EWI will that make it?
    What the interest rate charged ?

    Am I missing something ?

    cheers jim
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2012 edited
     
    Quick look about puts the interest rate in the 7.5% range
    Doesn't sound that great . additonal advance on mortgage will most likely be cheaper.
    I'm presuming green deal supplier and installers will be charging a premium to cover their set up cost
    Wont it be possible to get these sevices for less from a non registered firm/trades person?
    • CommentAuthoratomicbisf
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2012
     
    Posted By: jamesingramQuick look about put the interest rate in the 7.5% range
    Doesn't sound that great . additonal advance on mortgage will most likely be cheaper.
    I'm presuming green deal supplier and installers will be charging a premium to cover their set up cost
    Wont it be possible to get these sevices for less from a no registered firm/trades person?


    I'm also thinking the likes of British Gas usually charge a lot more than many local installers, so if the Green Deal is dominated by these big firms that will be another dampener on it.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2012 edited
     
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2012
     
    The really worrying point is that the 'Golden Rule' is not all that golden. It can be over-ridden as long as the customer signs a declaration to waive it. This opens the flood-gates for mis-selling as if the caveats around the Golden Rule were not bad enough to start with.
  7.  
    Hi Ted, that's very interesting. Do you have a link to where that's from please?
    •  
      CommentAuthorbetterroof
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2012
     
    The costs involved in becoming accredited are ridiculous (I'd be looking at about £6k all in) plus all the extra paperwork etc. Only the big firms are going to be able to afford to do it and I see much miss-selling on the horizon. It also doesn't help the PV and thermal industry as the golden rule payback just doesn't add up, it would take years to pay back anything over general draught-proofing and insulation. It's completely pointless afaic.
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2012
     
    Posted By: jamesingramGas is still the cheapest way to heat your home if available


    So British Gas charge you £99 to say actually you can't beat gas!
    • CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2012
     
    Posted By: betterroofthe golden rule payback just doesn't add up

    More and more recently I'm thinking that what's happening is that half-baked schemes are being layered on one another with patches slapped on where two schemes rub together. And then I remember that that's exactly what's predicted if you don't go directly for the underlying goal with a carbon tax but try to implement piecemeal subsidies and taxes.
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2012
     
    Mike, it is in the latest DECC GD consultation response documents:

    http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/consultation/green-deal/5521-the-green-deal-and-energy-company-obligation-cons.pdf

    "To address these concerns, we will require that if a lower than average energy user wishes to take out a Green Deal finance, the Green Deal Provider must obtain a written acknowledgement that they are aware that, based on their energy use, the Green Deal charge may not be fully offset by their energy savings."
    - p17

    and this covers the in-situ performance adjustments in detail:

    http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/tackling-climate-change/green-deal/5505-how-the-green-deal-will-reflect-the-insitu-perfor.pdf
  12.  
    Thanks Ted
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2012
     
    I see there is a refurb conference about all this in Birmingham at the end of Nov. 'Retro Expo':
    http://www.retro-expo.co.uk/
    10% discount if you go via linked-in group: http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Retro-Expo-Green-Deal-Summit-4617395

    The whole thing does seem a right shambles, as djh observes, but if it generates action like this that means people actually get their houses refurbed, I guess that's a good thing. Ultimately I don't really care if people pay over the odds via baroque govt schemes so long as it gets done. It'd be nice if it wasn't this way, but hopefully it'll generate a lot more activity than would otherwise be the case. Of course it may all backfire hopelessly if the Daily Heil decides it's all a con - we shall see.
    •  
      CommentAuthorbetterroof
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2012
     
    I completely agree with the domestic uptake part of the scenario, it's just problematic and frustrating from an installer point of view. I'm basically cut out of the deal by the big boys (stamps foot and pouts). Hey ho.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2012
     
    Posted By: tedMike, it is in the latest DECC GD consultation response documents:

    http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/consultation/green-deal/5521-the-green-deal-and-energy-company-obligation-cons.pdf" rel="nofollow" >http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/consultation/green-deal/5521-the-green-deal-and-energy-company-obligation-cons.pdf

    "To address these concerns, we will require that if a lower than average energy user wishes to take out a Green Deal finance, the Green Deal Provider must obtain a written acknowledgement that they are aware that, based on their energy use, the Green Deal charge may not be fully offset by their energy savings."
    - p17


    So a higher than average user doesn't need to be told or sign a waiver?
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2012
     
    The waiver should only apply to low energy users. Higher energy users would be expected to meet the Golden Rule. Exactly what that threshold is is not stated.

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