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General: How much roughly would plans for a loft conversion cost?

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1 to 27 of 27

  1.  
    • CommentAuthorDavidP
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2012
     
    Hello all

    I am thinking of having a loft conversion on my mid terraced house next year with a full sized dorma on the back. The building inspector has said that he does not need plans but I was hoping to get some drawn up for myself (as I am hoping to do the majority of the work myself). The structual engineer has said that he will do the calcs and drawings for the conversion for £750.00 Is this about the going rate for this type of thing? Or could I get it done cheaper elsewhere?

    Thanks

    Dave
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2012
     
    sounds nice and cheap to me.
    • CommentAuthorcaliwag
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2012
     
    Surprised you would consider a structural engineer for an attic conversion especially as the building inspector is not requesting drawings. You'll get an existing survey drawn up for a lot less...less than a day's work. Check your local free paper/magazine for 'plans drawn': there's usually several ads. I'd guess you could get the attic surveyed and drawn up for for £3-400 at the outside.
  4.  
    yep sounds good
  5.  
    I've done lots of these. £750 including the calculations is about right.

    I pay an Engineer to do the calculations though - usually £100.

    I would ask the Engineer to see drawings of other conversions he has done - The regulations and solutions for a loft conversion are often very complex due to conflicting requirements - not least between planning and Building regulations.

    On the other hand, Full plans are not a legal requirement for Building Regulations and the work can be done under a Building Notice. This however relies on the Builder being very experienced and liaising directly with Building Control as the work progresses.

    You must also be very sure that your Planning Design is actually viable - as the inclusion of stairs into what is most often an area of limited headroom is the deal maker or breaker.

    Get someone who has done this before and is recommended
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2012
     
    Lot depends on your own knowledge and experience. Even the crew on Cowboy Builders have come unstuck on a an apparently simple loft conversion. There are two ways to get Building Contol Approval... You can submit a full plans application and wait for Building Control to approved the design, or you can submit a Building Notice (no plans) start work and let Building Control approve it as you go. The risk with the latter approach is that you make a mistake and the BCO requires you to make changes or undo work when they make an inspection. That can still happen if you make a full plans application but the risk should be a bit lower. I'd get plans drawn up even if you go down the Building Notice route. As Caliwag said you could probably get it cheaper but perhaps ask the SE to quote for plans only as the BCO has said calculations won't be required? It's quite possible the BCO may change his mind later.
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: CWattersIt's quite possible the BCO may change his mind later.

    Indeed it is
  8.  
    ''..ask the SE to quote for plans only as the BCO has said calculations won't be required?'' (I think the OP said that dwgs weren't req'd, not that 'proving' calcs won't be) But why would you *not* want calcs in something you are spending a lot of money on?
    • CommentAuthorDavidP
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2012
     
    Thanks all

    I know that the drawings are not needed but I thought i'd get them for my peace of mind, and because I am not that experienced. And the reason why we have gone for a structual engineer is to get the calcs for what ridge i'll need and floor joists etc...
    I've just had the same structual engineer do the calcs for two steels for two walls I am taking down and they came to £250.00
    He did say that he could do some drawings that would be suitable for an experienced builder would use for about £350.00 but for "proper" drawings it would cost £750.00
    • CommentAuthormattwprice
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2012
     
    £250 for calcs for two steels is extortianate! I'm not touting for work here as besides anything else I am likely to be on the more expensive side, probably am geographically remote and am very busy anyway, BUT.... Having worked in Building Control for around 6 years in addition to running my own architectural practice I can say I am amazed at the varying quality you can get from so called 'professionals'. On the whole engineer's are not brilliant with their drawing's or detailing although there are exceptions. If it were me, and I wasn't experienced I would have a quiet word with your local BCO and ask if they could mention a few names of local agents who may be able to do the job for you.. They aren't allowed to make recommendations but you may be able to get some heavey hints. I know certain engineers who have cost their clients money just by specifying something that whilst structurally worked, was in no way an economic solution to the problem. As the previous poster said though.. check and check again head room for stairs and the landing at the top of the stairs. You have to have clear head room there too and unless you are lucky with your roof space and existing stair position you may find it hard to achieve.
    • CommentAuthorDavidP
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2012
     
    I have been through it all with the building inpspector and the head height is not a problem, would you say to get another price for the drawings then or does the £750 sound about right?
    I'll ask him for a look at some of his "proper" drawings too. He does come recommended from a few builders and the building inspector knows him too.
  12.  
    If he is recommended by people you trust then I would go with him. £750 is right on the nail as far as i'm concerned
    • CommentAuthormattwprice
    • CommentTimeOct 17th 2012
     
    as above.. if you have recommendations from people who know building then go with him
  14.  
    Assuming you intend to do this loft conversion as Permitted Development, I would also recommend submitting a Certificate of Lawfulness for a Proposed Use or Development (CLOPUD) while you have the plans drawn up.
    The cost is half the cost of a planning application if you do it before you start the work, and is a legal decision from the Council that what you are proposing to build complies with the PD regs.
    It would provide peace of mind and prevent a lot of stress/heartache afterwards.
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2012
     
    My council told me I needed planning permission for my loft conversion (I did it myself) but found out from another builder that as I was not putting a dormer on the front elevation (I had dormers on the other three sides) Planning permision was not required, it was permitted development. I went to see the planning department and quoted chapter and verse and they said "OH" perhaps you dont then.

    I did my own drawings by borrowing a couple of sets of different plans from friends and sort of made it up!!. Building regulations advised I needed a couple of changes (a few bits I got wrong) and passed it.
    • CommentAuthormattwprice
    • CommentTimeOct 18th 2012
     
    actually, planning were correct.. you DO need planning. You were raising the roof line (dormer) on an elevation that was visible from the road.. (the side) you wouldn't need it if it was just the rear.
  17.  
    I'd agree with your interpretation of the Guidance Matt, though I once put in a complete planning application for a two sided dormer on a hip roof only to be told that it was Permitted Development. The house was on a corner so one Dormer did face a public highway. The Client didn't want to pay me as they said I should have known it would be permitted development!

    In the same area I have been forced to make a full application where a rear slope dormer faced a rear lane, as the lane was classified by the officer concerned as guess what? - a public highway.

    Grrrr - planners

    :fierce:
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012
     
    mattwprice,

    I beg to differ, I have done several loft conversions and the planning department on these occasions (since my own) have confirmed that the elevation of the roof that faces the highway is the only one that requires planning permission.
  19.  
    Just to add my tuppence worth - it's the interpretation of what is a highway and how far away the elevation is before highways can be ignored. (all elevations inevitably do face a highway of some sort) This is one of the *guidelines* which allow planners such control within the realms of interpritation. Others are *overdeveloment of the site* and *insufficient amenity space*
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2012 edited
     
    Worth a read because it appears to contradict some of the preceeding posts...

    http://www.planningportal.gov.uk//uploads/100806_PDforhouseholders_TechnicalGuidance.pdf

    For a loft conversion it says you need PP if..

    "(b) any part of the dwellinghouse would, as a result of the works, extend beyond the plane of any existing roof slope which forms the principal elevation of the dwellinghouse and fronts a highway"

    eg "and" not "or"

    Then...

    "There will only be one principal elevation on a house. Where there are two elevations which may have the character of a principal elevation (for example, on a corner plot), a view will need to be taken as to which of these forms the principal elevation."

    So it seems unlikely PP would be needed for a rear dormer and if it is then you may not need PP for a front dormer.
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2012
     
    I think this is another example of inconsistances within the planning/building regulations departments in different parts of the country.

    Also, Bristol area has a local code that says that dormers must be "subservient" to the main roof (they mean smaller, i.e. the ridge of the dormer must be lower than the ridge of the house).
  22.  
    ...we convinced the planners once that the road facing elevation was not the principle elevation... mwoohahaha..!! :devil:

    J

    (PS, Drawings, calculations, structural design, architectural design, architectural service are all different things...)
  23.  
    A gem of a link Colin! I may well have use for that in the near futrure:boogie::whorship:
  24.  
    Looking at page 15, the document refers to a corner plot and states with regard to the principal elevation (in this case the front)

    'If a house lies on a corner plot where a side elevation also fronts a highway, there
    will be an additional restriction on permitted development to the side of the house:

    So the example I referred to above should not have been Permitted Development yet the planners said that it was.
    • CommentAuthormattwprice
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2012
     
    Joe

    I would agree with regard to incosistencies. Certainly round here planning will view the principle elevation to be just that. The shape of the building when viewed from the main part.. usually the front. The addition of a side dormer would change that shape and therefore the principle elevation. I see the logic of the argument but agree it is a grey area. Planners here have said no to dormers. It does beg the question how far can you go with this though.. Could you change a hip roof to a gable under this guideline? You wouldnt be extending beyond the plane of the existing roof plane.. Nothing would be higher than the existing ridge.....
  26.  
    .....'Nothing would be higher than the existing ridge..... ''

    Unless you take the view that the plane - the 'ridge' - of the hip roof at the hip is actually the line of the hip tiles.....
    • CommentAuthormattwprice
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2012
     
    but then according to Joe's planners interpretation, that isnt a principle elevation and so wouldnt matter

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