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    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012 edited
     
    Hi all,

    I've been looking into the methods (and depth of) assessment prescribed for the suitability of a house for Green Deal interventions - specifically insulation upgrades.

    I know we have discussed such scenarios in great depth here but it occurred to me that we don't have a resource of anecdotal evidence of issues, defects, and problems before or after such interventions. Pictures would be a great way to illustrate such issues

    In other words, defects which would initially be hidden beneath fabric and therefore *invisible?* to the skilled surveyor without intrusive tests. I.E. drilling holes or hacking off render for example. The example I've given is for walls but i'm also interested in roofs and floors and the interaction and interfaces between them.

    I don't mean this thread to be negative to the green deal but I think it is very important that people who may take this up are aware or potential pitfalls

    So does anyone have any pictures? I'll load some up later
    • CommentAuthorGaryB
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012
     
    Mike

    I have a number of thermal image shots (including some shockers) - I'll post them here when I get access to the laptop this evening.
  1.  
    Ok, here's a start. A concealed timber lintol in the outer *leaf* of a 9 inch solid brick wall. At some time in the past the original window had been removed and bricked up
      Ext concealed lintol 2.jpg
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012 edited
     
    Actually in quite good condition, probably due to the minimal exposure to rainfall as the elevation is reasonably well protected
      Ext concealed lintol 1.jpg
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012 edited
     
    And here's one on a different elevation where the window remains. The render was adhered to metalic lath nailed to the timber. No visible sigh therefore that the lintol was timber
      Ext timb lintol 2.jpg
  2.  
    another
      Ext Timb lintol 3.jpg
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012 edited
     
    So what would be the effect of internally or externally insulating such walls with hidden lintols such as these under a Green Deal proposal?

    Would they even be picked up in a Green Deal Assessment procedure given that they are in areas of masonry where they really shouldn't be? Ie, at the outer facing edge of a solid brick wall.
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012 edited
     
    Some more pics. These ones at the eaves of a solid walled house. Note the impermeable sarking. Also no ventilation at the eaves
      Eaves 1.jpg
  3.  
    and when exposed
      Eaves 2.jpg
  4.  
    Last lot for now.

    An outbreak of dry rot in around a chimney breast/flue. The fruiting body located in a bricked up flue
      dry rot 1.jpg
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012 edited
     
    and a close up
      Dry rot 2.jpg
    • CommentAuthorMike George
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012 edited
     
    The circumstances being that the cavity wall adjacent to the flue void had been retro - insulated.

    There were lots of voids where the insulation had not been installed completely. Also there is a question about whether the wall itself was suitable for cavity wall insulation given its severe exposure.

    I believe the badly installed insulation promoted conditions within the voids and flue promoting the dry rot outbreak
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012
     
    Condensation in a roof due to plastic sarking, added insulation and no ventilation
      1-20-2010_014sm.jpg
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012
     
    Insulation nailed up to the underside of a roof deck, ventilated beneath!!!
      1-20-2010_022sm.jpg
    • CommentAuthorGaryB
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012
     
    Dormer window, 1989, a bit difficult for the builder to access to lay insulation, so he didn't bother...
      Survey 033.jpg
    • CommentAuthorGaryB
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012 edited
     
    Missing insulation in sloping roof section, remove the roof tiles or remove the plasterboard?

    The second photo shows the same area in summertime, ceiling turns into a radiant heating panel...
      Survey 037.jpg
      Nikon 342.jpg
    • CommentAuthorGaryB
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012
     
    This is what happens when a recessed downlight is fitted into a top floor ceiling - draughts! Not really a hidden problem, just not thought through by homeowner and installer.
      Nikon 022.jpg
    • CommentAuthorGaryB
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012
     
    Flat roof in extension - either no insulation or the same issue as Tony's flat roof photo above (ie ventilated below the insulation).
      Nikon 125.jpg
    • CommentAuthorGaryB
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012 edited
     
    This is a Passivhaus certified door, believe it or not...

    A little bit of thermal bridging at the threshold, methinks.
      Nikon 246.jpg
    • CommentAuthorGaryB
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012
     
    Suspended timber floor, route of (uninsulated) heating pipes clearly visible.
      Nikon 167.jpg
    • CommentAuthornikhoward
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2012
     
    Love the pics Gary
    • CommentAuthoran02ew
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2012
     
    Sorry to distract this thread. just a few Qs

    Hi Gary B

    I am engrossed in your thermal image shots, what sort of camera do you have? How much are they?
    • CommentAuthorGaryB
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2012
     
    Hi Andrew

    It's a Flir i7, we paid just under £2K for it including VAT. The cheapest model in the range is the i3 at circa £850 + VAT, which looks identical but has a quarter of the field of view.

    Very easy to use but needs care in the settings and interpretation to get the best out of it.
    • CommentAuthorGaryB
    • CommentTimeOct 20th 2012
     
    Not strictly a hidden defect, but present in a large number of houses.

    This is an internal block wall with a radiator BEHIND it. The other side of the wall is at 18 degC. If you have radiators on external walls (a hidden defect?) always make sure you have insulated radiator foil behind.

    If your radiators are on outside solid walls or you have no cavity wall insulation, either get the walls insulated or move the radiators. Seriously.
      Survey 068.jpg
    • CommentAuthorrhamdu
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2012
     
    Great pictures, Mike. With the heat camera, they are 'hidden' defects no more.

    I particularly like the inset downlighter. Did you ever take a thermal image of one of these, while switched on, from the loft above?
    • CommentAuthorGaryB
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2012
     
    Rhamdu

    Never taken one from the loft but here is one taken of the floor in an (unheated) room above a ceiling with downlights. You can not only make out the position of the downlighters but you can see the how the heat has filled the void between the floor joists.
      Nikon 007.jpg
  5.  
    Well, not exactly hidden, and not exactly *in* a house, but te cause of the defect may have been hidden to the original contractor!
      244.JPG
  6.  
    Spot the 'hidden' energy issue.
      All at 28 2 12 094.JPG
    • CommentAuthorGaryB
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2012 edited
     
    Also watch out for thermostats. These examples are both positioned on a dry-lined external wall.

    The first one actually has a room temperature of 25.4 deg C but draughts into the drylining results in a perceived temperature of 22 deg C, result = excess heat loss and overheating.

    In the second example the drylining is OK but the draught is coming in via the electrical conduit and blows out the side vents. Again, excess heat loss and overheating as the stat is perceiving a lower temperature.
      Nikon 060.jpg
      Nikon 075.jpg
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeOct 21st 2012 edited
     
    Plumbers! over notching joist, why werent all the first floor joists 5x2?
      1-21-2010_015sm.jpg
   
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