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General: EWI covering outer window frame, details?

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1 to 26 of 26

  1.  
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2012
     
    Hello all,


    Does anyone have a jpeg or similar detailing EWI covering the outer frame of a inward-opening window (or door), please?
    We have specified it for a client, and despite having everything agreed for months, they are now asking for a 'picture' of how it will look?
    The detail is similar to VH's Passiv Window (thanks Seamus! ):bigsmile:
    I have showed them the drawings, and tried to explain, but a picture says a 1000 words.....

    Thanks in advance....:smile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2012 edited
     
    best I can do!
      2011-09-07 008med.jpg
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeOct 22nd 2012
     
    FT,
    thanks... but not quite enough covering of the outer frame of the window.
    I remember a European mfr of PH-spec windows is demonstrating this detail in their marketing blurb, but can I find it now I need it?:cry:

    Cheers...:smile:
    • CommentAuthoran02ew
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    i think the above pic shows the EWI covering all but the last 5/6mm of outer frame and the other section seen there is the actual door. so impossible to get any more covering without overlaping the opening which when the door is opened you would see the back of the EWI.
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    an02ew...

    My apologies, Yes I can see it now!
    I assumed it was a window frame... that is fine.
    It is the junction between the rendered jamb and the door frame that we need to illustrate.

    Spot on, thanks:bigsmile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    Well done, team
    • CommentAuthoran02ew
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    Tom. Ever considered hand modelling
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    That's disgusting
    • CommentAuthorDarylP
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    :bigsmile::bigsmile::bigsmile::bigsmile::bigsmile::bigsmile::bigsmile::bigsmile::cry:
    • CommentAuthoran02ew
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    Am i missing somthing?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2012
     
    I'll explain in private!
    • CommentAuthorMikeRumney
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2012
     
    We decided to only cover 10mm of our outer door and window frames to avoid a "mean" look to the openings.
    The inside of the outer frames will be fully insulated as there are more options on defining the appearance afterwards.
    I know it's not as good a solution ... just curious to know what other people think about the relative merits/necessity for internal and external insulation around frames ......
    • CommentAuthoratomicbisf
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2012
     
    To avoid a 'mean' look (which is a risk I think) couldn't you put a decorative protruding frame around the window on top of the EWI to give a neater more finished look?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2012 edited
     
    With bulkier high performance window frames, they need covering up a bit. Believe me, it doesn't look mean.

    Tho I did learn from this job that slim tapered-outward stick-on glazing beads do look flimsy, at the depth of the external beads of such windows, because of too-deep under-shadow (compared to the shallow putty-line depth of trad cottage or georgian/victorian windows). Next time I'd make them slim but rectangular in section, only edge-chamfered at 45o to create shadow like a putty bead.
      2012-02-05 101.jpg
    • CommentAuthornikhoward
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2012
     
    I think either weber or wetherby websites have very good cad files of all details. I was browsing on one of them last week, will try to search my history to find a link
    • CommentAuthorMikeRumney
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2012
     
    Posted By: atomicbisfTo avoid a 'mean' look (which is a risk I think) couldn't you put a decorative protruding frame around the window on top of the EWI to give a neater more finished look?


    The finish is very neat as we used some frame beads that you strip a section off after rendering, but actually, yes we thought we might do that eventually ... particularly as the sills (cils?) will be fitted in this way.
    It's also what we're probably going to do internally to compensate for covering up more of the frame with insulation.

    How about my "insulation of frames internally" question btw?

    Photo shows where we're at just now with the rendered wall ...
    (Roof further down the line now "THANK GOD!"
    The lower edge of the slate will be hidden by a box gutter, and the OSB soffit/fascia is an "inner" one.
    The outer one will project out more, and will be in black "charred" timber.)
      CIMG2199 50%.jpg
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2012
     
    Very sweet!
  18.  
    Mike, well done, it's coming along nicely since I last saw it. Very neat job!
  19.  
    Posted By: MikeRumneyWe decided to only cover 10mm of our outer door and window frames to avoid a "mean" look to the openings. The inside of the outer frames will be fully insulated as there are more options on defining the appearance afterwards. I know it's not as good a solution ... just curious to know what other people think about the relative merits/necessity for internal and external insulation around frames ......
    The most important thing is to align the frame with the insulation such that it doesn't overlap with the masonry. Similarly, if using EWI then the best place to put the frame insulation is over the outside, aligning it with the EWI. Insulating the interior masonry reveal doesn't help much because the masonry should mostly be at room temperature.

    If using cavity wall insulation or very thick EWI then there's some benefit in insulating the interior sill, soffit & reveals in the insulation zone, but little point carrying it over the masonry sill, soffit & reveals unless they form part of thermal bridges or its just easier to build that way.

    What do you plan to do at the exterior sill?

    David
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeOct 31st 2012
     
    Nice looking job Mike. I really like the rounded corners.

    Jonti
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2012
     
    http://www.dbppartnersltd.co.uk/2012_MSORA.pdf page 7 shows external insulation lapping frame
    and possible interesting source of passiv spec 3G - they seem to have just got a UK agent. (no connection)

    and I also like those rounded corners - is it round inside too?
  22.  
    Both very nice and don't look mean at all!
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeNov 3rd 2012 edited
     
    Not sure what M-sora are doing here - is that grey lump on p7 just the usual EWI, or supplied as part of the window? Seems 3 variants - one without the facing, one 'XPS' and one 'IZO'. And looks like the glass of the opening sash is externally frameless. Clever - and externally non-bulky in appearance. I could live with these. But I bet I couldn't afford them!
  24.  
    Tom... Peter ... Jonti ... Robin ... Atomic:
    Thanks for all your encouragement! A great help when flying solo 

    The internal corners are not curved but there will definitely be some judicious use of “Deco” motifs.
    Outside, the soffit and fascia will have more of that classic Deco stepped look when done ... I hope.
    Inside we might curve the side reveals on the windows for example.
    Looking into Copper for the box gutter, and therefore also maybe for framing the windows ... but not if it looks too “busy” (or “sweet”!) as a result.
    Outer sill most likely timber, slotted in.
    The upper and lower reveals are both sloped slightly downward to the outside so will probably bed it onto beads of mastic to allow water to “run out” if it gets “in” in the first place.
    David:
    The wall build up is 150 EWI on a 150 studs with insulation between so no masonry, and no thermal bridges except for the frames themselves ... which makes me think, given your suggestions, that it is worth essentially extending the inner part of the wall as much as possible.

    Thank y’all once again ... Doors may need widening to accomodate the brain-case!
    :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: MikeRumneybut not if it looks too “busy” (or “sweet”!) as a result.

    ... completely subjective I know, but I'd be in favour of keeping the windows as simple and "clean" as possible and just using the copper on the gutters. Don't want to gild the lily so to speak.
  26.  
    Aww ... no "tarts boudoir" then? :bigsmile:

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