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    • CommentAuthoreniacs
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    Attached image:
      hse1.jpg
    • CommentAuthoreniacs
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    pic2
      hse2.jpg
    • CommentAuthoreniacs
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    pic3
      hse3.jpg
    • CommentAuthoreniacs
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    pic4 and btw, pool will be solar heated.
      hse4.jpg
    • CommentAuthorPugliese
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    Very difficult to make comment without knowing who the house is for, will it be a long time family home etc. Also what is the orientation and environment. A clue to what you think makes this home special i.e features that make it stand out from a run of the mill build, as well as why this type of house works for you.

    My initial thoughts were that it looks a bit boxy inside and apart from the 'pool room' the ceiling heights all look the same BUT that is just to my taste, you may hate open spaces and varying ceiling heights!:neutral:
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    The bit that strikes me immediately is why the double hip and why is it not the same width as the groundfloor giving the small bit of 'lean to' roof.

    Both of these things will add to the cost considerably (for minimal benefit IMHO) and the valley between the hips a constant source of troubles or potential troubles.

    I would make it a single roof and get it from U-roof so it is more usable in the future (and do the structure so a stair can be added later). The advantage of the u-roof system is the usable space inside. Compared to a timber roof it is incredible!

    Oh and why no windows under the double hips at Firstfloor? The change between vertical split windos and horizontal also strikes me as 'different'.
  1.  
    Why the small roof slope over the window on the ground floor? That will cost thousands extra to build and loses room space on the 1st floor. Agree with Brians comments regarding the main roof - potential to simplify that considerably.
  2.  
    Are you trying to retain an existing roof? Would it make sense to remove it & start from scratch?

    Could you summarise the constraints you're dealing with & what you're trying to achieve?

    David
  3.  
    I agree with comments about the roof valley gutter - get rid of it! Every one I have had dealings with has been a problem.

    Did I miss something or is there really only one WC/bathroom? Put a shower / WC in the 'pool' room, it will save a lot of mess in the house, WC / laundry room is needed (in plan and not shown?). The room leading to the 'pool' room could be a bit short of one natural light / windows.

    Ditto Davids comments re constraints and achievements.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    Apart from the construction cost and potential problems with a complicated roof like this it also makes it unnecessarily difficult to retrofit solar to the roof.

    Is the shadowing shown for noon?
    • CommentAuthoreniacs
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    I didnt like the idea of the valley gutter either, but the architect choose this saying that the council would not allow a increase in roof height to make a normal shaped roof. I dont know the difference in price yet, but i suspect rebuilding the entire roof, may be significantly more expensive. I will have to check into this, as it would make other aspects of the build easier, if the roof were completely replaced with new.
    Additionally the architect choose the 300mm step back in the front elevation of the extension, again saying that the council would not allow an extension to be in the same line as the rest of the house.

    The house is planned to be the family home for next 10 years. Beyond that, it is likely we will sell up and move on to a larger place, cant be sure of this of course.

    The long stretch of wall on the south side faces the house next door and so does not have any windows. It is intended to use this large area of south facing wall to mount 4 hot water solar panels and a single electric panel to run the pumps for the pool and heat the pool.

    In picture 2, south is to the right. The garden room folding doors face almost directly south.

    You can see the layout and current house on the link below. We have removed almost all the overgrowing bushes and trees, leaving only the large tree and a couple small fruit trees in the rear garden. Everything has been laid to grass.

    http://goo.gl/maps/E2cTv
    • CommentAuthorJTGreen
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    Maybe I'm missing something, but what's the green bit of this build? I'm not sure there is a way to make an outside private swimming pool in a garden green, even if solar heated - given that the equivalent number of solar panels could generate energy to supply existing uses rather than a new use.
    • CommentAuthoreniacs
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    JTG, I suppose i should clarify. I have been here monitoring the good practice approach that GBF have been doing with their houses and clients projects. This is because I want my house to be warm and economical to run, even in very cold winters. Because of my job i am home a lot of time, so in the winter the boiler ends up running alot.
    I dont want to be "green" or save my carbon fooftprint or any other similar words for saving the planet from its own impending doom, I only want a warm house.
    Is there another way of having an outdoor swimming pool "green"? Sun powered heating and pumps looks the best way to go for me.
    At present it doesnt make sense for this house to have any other solar heating or PV as it is not economical.
  4.  
    Swimming pool seems like a good way of wasting heat - you might want to refer to earlier threads regarding a certain grand designs house which had the losses for theirs worked out and I think theirs was indoors.... certainly if you are worried about the boiler running a lot just now then perhaps checking the real life running costs now is a good idea. Solar panels and heat pumps will not address the need for large heat input. Also it seems mad that your architect is going to such extreme measures to satisfy what may or may not be a real issue, perhaps you could approach the planners yourself and point out the needless hassle and waste not to mention ongoing maintenance issues that are being created - you never know, they might agree.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    Posted By: eniacsI didnt like the idea of the valley gutter either, but the architect choose this saying that the council would not allow a increase in roof height to make a normal shaped roof.
    Don't really see that argument. If the 'top' ridge is a T how will that increase the height (or have I missed something obvious).
    Posted By: eniacsAdditionally the architect choose the 300mm step back in the front elevation of the extension, again saying that the council would not allow an extension to be in the same line as the rest of the house.
    I really would approach the planning officer and ask him if this correct advice. The line is being followed at the groundfloor level (AFAICS).
    • CommentAuthoreniacs
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2012
     
    Borpin take a look at picture 1, in the lower right hand image. If you bring the line of the roof upto the existing ridge and extend this along, you will be left either with a piece of roof higher than exisitng, or a strange flat bit. The choices stand at the valley the architect has drawn, a higher roof or a replacement roof at different angle.
    I think you may be right about discussing with planning, but the architect is local and wil have dealt many times with the local planners.

    Pool will be heated by solar only. Some friends of ours local have a pool which is not heated at all in a sort of poly tunnel construction, it reaches 26deg in the midst of summer. I will insulate a lot and heat it with 3-4 large solar panels. Dont see why this will not bring the pool to 30 deg in the summer?
    • CommentAuthorecohome
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2012
     
    I whispered my response but got an error message, so not sure if you got them.
    • CommentAuthoreniacs
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2012
     
    Eco I havent got anything whispered? Email me if you like, email address is my username on here @yahoo.com.
    • CommentAuthorPugliese
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2012
     
    Some tips re pools to consider as we are building one at the moment in Italy. As you suggest, insulate - yes, consider not having a deep end, reduces the heat requirement, reduces chemicals, cheaper to build and is safer - big consideration that last one where kids and animals are concerned. Also consider a heat retaining cover you can walk on, will make a difference as well as keep the leaves out. Lastly, our old neighbour had an outside pool in the UK and got minimal use with our weather and he was a real hardy soul:cool:
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: willie.macleodSwimming pool seems like a good way of wasting heat
    What heat?

    If it's ST heated, no finite resource is being used (other than the embodied energy in the construction of the pool itself and the ST installation).

    An infinite amount of heat is harmlessly available for free from the sun, given a suitable receptacle (the pool, at low reqd. temp) and a means of collecting.

    ST pool heaters are supremely efficient i.e. (lot of heat gathered for small collector area) esp if dedicated to the pool (not part of the DHW ST system) and esp if they can be arranged on a bank at lower level than the pool so they work by thermosyphon.
  5.  
    Posted By: fostertom
    Posted By: willie.macleodSwimming pool seems like a good way of wasting heat
    What heat?


    The heat from the solar collectors/heat pumps that could otherwise be used to heat the house..... OP stated that it isn't economical to use solar for the house. Limited collection of heat available in terms of space and equipment as well as budget no doubt so personally I would use that to heat a house which is used 24/7 rather than a pool that is used for a few hours a week during summer.....
    • CommentAuthoreniacs
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2012
     
    Will; Its not economical to do because we use only about £100 of hot water per year through our combi gas boiler. Ok this may increase, but not to the point that i will recover my investment of circa £2.5k.
    Heating during summer period is not necesary, we had the small gas fire on once during the summer period and this was after the several days of cold and rain in june. We tend to get a lot of passive solar heating here via the south facing windows and this contributes a lot to heating the house in the summer, even if the outdoor temps are around 12deg, we still enjoy 20 deg internal temps.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2012
     
    Posted By: willie.macleodOP stated that it isn't economical to use solar for the house
    because whereas it's easy to ST-heat a summer-only outdoor pool, it's conventionally a bigger tech challenge, and expensive, to use solar for space-heating, and is at best a small-benefit top-up to a house that isn't near-PH standard.

    IMO, every house should in fact be solar space-heated, and can be, right thro Dec/Jan, without double-expenditure on fuelled back-up heating system as well, provided the house is built (or retrofitted) to near-PH standard. At that point, solar space-heating becomes totally economic, a no-brainer - but this house clearly isn't that.

    For this poorly-insulated inevitably fuel-guzzling house design/intention, switching the expenditure from cheap, effective ST pool heating to expensive, marginally helpful ST space-heating isn't an option.
    • CommentAuthoreniacs
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: fostertomFor this poorly-insulated inevitably fuel-guzzling house design/intention, switching the expenditure from cheap, effective ST pool heating to expensive, marginally helpful ST space-heating isn't an option.

    Tom thanks for that comment, care to clarify? The walls on this property are 60mm cavity with blown fibreglass and 100mm phenolic giving U = 0.15. The ceilings are 220mm phenolic and some floors will be upgraded during the build to 100mm phenolic. How is this a poorly insulated fuel guzzler?
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2012
     
    Posted By: fostertomIMO, every house should in fact be solar space-heated, and can be, right thro Dec/Jan, without double-expenditure on fuelled back-up heating system as well, provided the house is built (or retrofitted) to near-PH standard.
    At the risk of going OT, is that not dependent on where it is built? May well work in Cornwall but is a struggle even in the central belt of Scotland.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2012
     
    Posted By: eniacsBorpin take a look at picture 1, in the lower right hand image. If you bring the line of the roof upto the existing ridge and extend this along, you will be left either with a piece of roof higher than exisitng, or a strange flat bit. The choices stand at the valley the architect has drawn, a higher roof or a replacement roof at different angle.
    Doh! Banged to rights although I'd be inclined to prefer a small flat area to the valley.

    If you have to stick with the valley, put a significant slope on it. Imagine a foot of some sitting in there. Remember snow melts from below. not from the top (unless very sunny).
  6.  
    I would investigate the options for putting a small area of flat roof on top. This wouldn't be visible from the road or garden & would avoid the risk of flooding due to blocked gutters, snow melt, etc.

    If you keep the valley then make sure it has some fall on it.

    David
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2012
     
    Posted By: eniacs
    Posted By: fostertomFor this poorly-insulated inevitably fuel-guzzling house design/intention, switching the expenditure from cheap, effective ST pool heating to expensive, marginally helpful ST space-heating isn't an option.

    Tom thanks for that comment, care to clarify?
    Sorry, I take that back - not having read the whole thread I went by
    Posted By: eniacsI dont want to be "green" or save my carbon fooftprint or any other similar words for saving the planet from its own impending doom, I only want a warm house
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2012
     
    Posted By: borpinMay well work in Cornwall but is a struggle even in the central belt of Scotland
    Well, conventional wisdom says it can't be done anywhere, even Cornwall, without ways and means of collecting in deep winter that I've been describing here - but not sure if it's been grasped and certainly the solar industry has no experience - so where does your info come from that it's not poss in Scotland? The Cornwall vs Scotland difference isn't that great, and would just mean more collector area, larger storage etc.
    • CommentAuthoreniacs
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2012
     
    Thanks Tom. Yes I am an engineer so I see energy wastage all the time is vast quantities. I am happy as long as i dont need to pay a fortune to have a warm and comfortable house, as we all know this means insulation, insulation, insulation...

    David as always you make a common sense comments. I will bring this up with the architect, i think this is the best overall solution to the problems with the proposed roof design.
   
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