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    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012
     
    ie what volume is a reasonable allocation for a normal person wanting to call themselves green?

    150l or 120l or 100l or 80l or less?
    • CommentAuthorbarney
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012
     
    Normal people should be targeting about 100l a day per person on average I supect - most will be using much more than that.

    regards

    Barney
  1.  
    I assume you mean "clean, treated, drinking water" In our house, on a meter, we are down below 100 l each. And we dont stint at all. I can't understand how people use so much
    • CommentAuthordocmartin
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012 edited
     
    By 'normal' you presumeably mean fit, well and continent; I suspect that our 2 person metered long term water usage of 87.5L/day ( < 44L per person) is offsetting the much higher, unmeasurable, water used for our 97yrs old uncle in a nearby residential home.
    • CommentAuthorseascape
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012
     
    Maybe 15l shower+20l washing/washing up+20l loo+10l cooking/drinking = 65l
  2.  
    I mean, the loo is about 30 litres each per day. Thats esssential, obviously. The rest - shower 20 litres each, etc...
    • CommentAuthordocmartin
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012 edited
     
    " I can't understand how people use so much"
    Second dimengineer's comment ,above. However we do not have young children or lawns and never use tap water in the large vegetable plot and 3 greenhouses for which I have 9,000L of rainwater stored above ground.
    • CommentAuthorrhamdu
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012
     
    Posted By: dimengineerI assume you mean "clean, treated, drinking water"

    Yes, that's a crucial distinction.

    In this year's UK weather conditions, untreated water has essentially negative value, i.e. people want to get rid of it, even though it is excellent for flushing loos and watering gardens.

    Posted By: dimengineerthe loo is about 30 litres each per day. Thats esssential, obviously.


    Obviously. But as you pointed out earlier, it need not be drinking water:bigsmile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2012
     
    Just had my bill today and we have used 150 lt each, Still way too high as I use less then 100 lt a day.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012 edited
     
    Here's the AECB take on it , for those looking for guidance

    "AECB water standards
    Delivering buildings with excellent water and energy performance. The AECB Water Standards prioritise reductions in the kinds of water use that are most environmentally damaging, targeting hot water use and water use in times and places of drought stress. The standards aim to avert the very real risk that building users will retrofit inefficient appliances, by specifying performance that real people find acceptable, thus delivering real energy and water savings in real-world use, rather than merely on paper."
    http://www.aecb.net/PDFs/waterstandards/1503_AECB_Water_Vol_1_V3.pdf
  3.  
    A simple usage calculator from the consumer council for water

    http://www.ccwater.org.uk/server.php?show=nav.388
    • CommentAuthorSeret
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012
     
    Posted By: tonynormal person wanting to call themselves green?


    Contradiction in terms, innit?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012
     
    poetic licence
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012
     
    Last time I checked, we were using less than 90 l each. I'm not sure how I could use as much as 30 l a day in the WC?

    What I object to in the water regs and standards is the attempt to regulate HOW I use water rather than simply saying "you can do what you like as long as the total is less than 100 l" (or whatever number). I enjoy a power shower - the secret is not to stand under it for 20 minutes! And using a flow-limited shower just means I stand under it for longer. I'm also perfectly capable of turning on the tap to the flow rate I want, and I object to being stopped from turning it on hard if that's what I want on some occasion. I can understand the desire not to scald babies and old folks, but again, I object to being told I'm not allowed to top up my bath with hot water if I want.

    Again, I'm fine with an overall budget for water and for energy, but I strongly object to being told how to spend it!
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012
     
    djh,

    I am totaly with you on this, in fact said as much on a similar thread some years ago. Using drinking quality water to flush the loo is bonkers. In fact in my proposed build I intend to use rainwater for everything except drinking/dishwashing.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012
     
    I reckon we use 75l a day each person but we have rainwater recycling and my uses loads for cleaning and stuff.
    • CommentAuthorSeret
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012
     
    Posted By: joe90Using drinking quality water to flush the loo is bonkers.


    Word.

    However, fitting two separate water distribution systems isn't an easy option either. The case for retrofitting water harvesting isnt strong IMO, which means it really needs to be designed in from scratch. That means (like any "new build only" measure) the pace of any improvement will be glacial.
    • CommentAuthorbarney
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012
     
    You need a hell of a big storage volume if you want a domestic house to operate off rainwater - with all the attendant energy burden of making and installing tanks, pumping costs etc etc.

    You may also have to consider water hygeine issues and treatment as well

    I used to have a figure per m3 of delivered water for the energy enbedded in it - it's pretty low - there is an argument along the lines of doing something else to save that predicted demand (in energy terms) over the building life and just use the potable supply as "normal" with the addition of low flow sanitary ware etc. to reduce the demand within practicable limits.

    Regards

    Barney
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012
     
    Those arguments went out the window when water got expensive, in Cornwall water is so expensive it is almost economic for retro fit of harvesting now.

    Water will only get more expensive and then there is the scarcity problems.

    I have 2800l we did run out three years ago in the summer but that was likely due to veggie watering use.

    mains water is cheap but it is not free.
    • CommentAuthorbarney
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012
     
    Thay are arguments, yes Tony

    My comments were based on the xtreme volumes need to use no mains water except for cooking/drinking - the economic and energy arguments don't stack up.

    Save what you can and use rainwater in simple applications for sure, but like all these things there is a sliding scal of economic and environmental benefit - it's a bit like the argument over lower water temps in washing machines etc - good thing environmentally? - probably, but it's costing a lot more to deal with drainage issues as a result

    Regards

    Barney
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: tonyThose arguments went out the window when water got expensive, in Cornwall water is so expensive it is almost economic for retro fit of harvesting now.
    Yes it is, just so the beaches are clean for the locals to let their dogs crap on them.

    Water is £1.9584/cubic metre
    Then the standing charge of £0.1026/day

    Sewage is £3.3074/cubic metre
    Then another standing charge of £0.0888/day

    So my 25 Cubic Metres is going to cost me £143.02

    Truth is it is not really expensive enough for me to do anything about it at around £600/year, maybe if it was triple the price I may do something. Cutting down on electricity is easy compared to water, and a lot cheaper.
    • CommentAuthorbarney
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012
     
    I suppose the other economic consideration is the water undertakings cost your discharge based on your intake - if you are using lots of rainwater that's essentialy going to foul (ie discharged, but not imported) then you don't get charged - yet - and that's a big potential change in future.

    Regards

    Barney
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012
     
    Posted By: barneythen you don't get charged
    You do down here, there is an assumption that you discharge unless you can prove otherwise.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012
     
    I can! from my water meter intake :smile:
  4.  
    Posted By: SteamyTeaTruth is it is not really expensive enough for me to do anything about it at around £600/year,


    I'm dropping the idea for our build. We've very restricted space which would both make initial install of the tank expensive and replacement extremely difficult. Add power consumption of the pump plus cost/replacement cost and it has to be a long way down the list of priorities.
    • CommentAuthorbarney
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012
     
    I appreciate that, but that doesn't account for rainwater discharge that you've used and diverted to foul does it ? - It's been a while since I lived in your fair county - I spent a while building big sheds at that well know pair of establishments heading out of Helston

    Regards

    Barney
    • CommentAuthorFred56
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012
     
    Odd coincidence as I have been reviewing our water consumption today. We moved into our new build in June and I wanted compare the consumption to the last houses we have lived in. For the build we designed to the water efficiency calculator to achieve under 80L/person/day in order to gain CSH credits. I also pinched a few ideas from the AECB guidelines. The things is though that in practice we are using almost exactly the same amount of water as we did in the last two houses equipped with meters.
    We don't have RWH because the site size a slope preclude it and building control don't want it. Due to local geology infiltration is prohibited and all surface water must go into the combined system. We do have low flush loos, 2.5/4L, a good and very expensive washing machine bought specifically for its low water use and ditto for the dishwasher. Flow regulators on the taps and shower plus a low capacity 130L bath. We also have PRVs screwed down to about 1.5bar.
    However, we still use more or less the same volume of water. WE may even be using more given that our boomerang kids are in mid flight more right now. This makes me wonder about the water efficiency calculator.
    • CommentAuthordocmartin
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2012 edited
     
    How deep do you have the water in your 'low capacity bath'?
    What size and shape?
    8cms of water in my 150x70cms standard shaped bath seems to be just over 30L; will measure it at next bath!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: barneyI appreciate that, but that doesn't account for rainwater discharge that you've used and diverted to foul does it ?
    True


    Big Sheds at Helston, would that be Lidl and Cornwall Farmers, or something to cover up the arms trade, Helston's dirty secret, apart from the Furry Dance:cool:
    • CommentAuthorGaryB
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2012
     
    Posted By: Fred56Odd coincidence as I have been reviewing our water consumption today. We moved into our new build in June and I wanted compare the consumption to the last houses we have lived in. For the build we designed to the water efficiency calculator to achieve under 80L/person/day in order to gain CSH credits. I also pinched a few ideas from the AECB guidelines. The things is though that in practice we are using almost exactly the same amount of water as we did in the last two houses equipped with meters.


    Could it be that the new house is bigger with longer HWS distribution runs, thus negating any benefit for the efficient fittings? In my house we were running off 9 litres of water to drain each time we used the kitchen hot tap and just a little less in the main bathroom. After repiping, the maximum run-off at any fitting is 2.7 litres. Saving is 3200 litres per year or 4.3 litres/person/day.
   
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