Couple of things driving me toward choosing a 6/4 flush at the mo: I've noticed rimless toilets tend to come with a 6/4 flushes and I've also seen a few comments around and about that the 4/2.6 often don't provide enough oomph.

What do you think? And how big of an impact does a 6/4 flush have over a 4/2.6 with regard to the Code for Sustainable Homes?

And why do the rimless appear to need more water? The Twyford Galerie for instance; the normal one comes with 4/2.6 but the rimless comes with 6/4.

Spoke to another Twyford tech person and she pointed out that the Galerie and 3D rimfree have a different inlet into the pan than the Sola and postulated that it might be that the syphon doesn't supply enough pressure for this compared to a valve flush.

Edit: she also just phoned me back to say that the Galerie and 3D rimfree didn't pass BS EN 997 with a syphon flush, so that's why it's not an option. She couldn't tell me what part it failed but suggested as above.

Likewise.

You might have picked up from my comments on other threads but I'm somewhat dubious about low water toilets. We've fitted 4 different ones in our current house over the last few years and not really happy with any. The 'cheap' RAK toilet collects a lot of limescale around the rim and there seem to be areas that the water doesn't clear properly. Scrub cheap stuff. The expensive square shaped one is not comfortable to sit on. The expensive Duravit is comfortable but needs manually cleaning and a second flush after a number two. Relatives who fitted IFO are thinking of having them removed as they don't clear the pan properly. Presumably all of these have passed the relevant standards.

I wonder if there's not a little truth in the old hot rodders maxim "theres no replacement for displacement"? When we moved into the house it had a toilet with an old fashioned high level cistern. When you flushed that the toilet really flushed.

Posted By: djhThey just stand in it until the water goes cold!

Tell me about it

Posted By: Simon StillI wonder if there's not a little truth in the old hot rodders maxim "theres no replacement for displacement"? When we moved into the house it had a toilet with an old fashioned high level cistern. When you flushed that the toilet really flushed.

Yes:

mgh where m is the mass of water, g is gravity and h is the height
Then, when it hits the solids it changes to momentum, so p = mv

So the higher the cistern the less water is needed and the smaller the solids the less momentum is needed to move them.

Now problems start when there is a density difference, floaters and sinkers, and some are more sticky than others causing other problems.

A list of the types are below:

Ghost Poop ~~ You know you've pooped. There's poop on the toilet paper, but no poop in the bowl.

Teflon Coated Poop ~~ Comes out so slick, clean and easy that you don't feel it. No traces of poop on the toilet paper. You have to look in the toilet bowl to be sure you did it!

Gooey Poop ~~ This has the consistency of hot tar. You wipe your butt 12 times and it still doesn't come clean. You end up putting toilet paper in your underwear so you don't stain it. This poop leaves permanent skid marks in the toilet.

Second Thought Poop ~~ You're all done wiping your butt and you're about to stand up when you realize it...you've got some more.

Pop a Vein in Your Forehead Poop ~~ This kind is the kind of poop that killed Elvis. It doesn't come until you're all sweaty, trembling and purple from straining so hard.

Bali Belly Poop ~~ You poop so much you lose 5 kilos.

Right Now Poop ~~ You better be within 10 seconds of a toilet. Usually it has its head out before you get your pants down.

King Kong or Commode Choker Poop ~~ This poop is so big that you know it won't go down the toilet unless you break it into smaller chunks. A coat hanger works well. This kind of poop usually happens at someone else's house.

Wet Cheeks Poop ~~ This poop hits the water sideways and makes a BIG splash that gets your butt wet.

Wish Poop ~~ You sit there all cramped up and fart a few times, but no poop!

Cement Block or Oh God Poop ~~ You wish you'd gotten a spinal block before you poop.

Snake Poop ~~ This poop is fairly soft and about as big around as your thumb and at least three feet long.

Cork Poop (Also Known as Floater Poop) ~~ Even after the third flush, it's still floating in there. My god! How do I get rid of it? This poop usually happens at someone else's house.

Mexican Food Poop (also called Screamers) ~ You'll know it's alright to eat again when your butthole stops burning.

Beer Drunk Poop ~~ This happens the day after the night before. Normally your poop doesn't smell too bad, but this poop is BAD. Usually there's somebody standing outside to use the bathroom. This kind of poop also usually happens at someone else's house.

The Frightened Turtle ~~ The kind of poop that just pokes its head out then quickly goes back in.

The Bungee Poop ~~ The kind of poop that just hangs off your butt before it falls into the water.

The Ring of Fire Poop ~~ The kind of poop where you eat really spicy food and your butthole feels like the inside of a cigarette lighter.

The Crippler ~~ The kind of poop where you have to sit on the toilet so long your legs go numb from the waist down.

The Big Bobber ~~ The kind of poop that no matter how many times you flush it always floats back to the surface.

The Chitty Chitty Bang Bang ~~ The kind of poop that hits you when you're trapped in your car in a traffic jam.

The Incredible Hulk Poop ~~ The king of poop that sits in the toilet overnight and mysteriously expands to twice it's normal size.

Jack the Ripper Poop ~~ The kind of poop that yanks out your butthair as it pushes its way out.

The Party Pooper ~~ The giant poop you take at a party. And when you flush the toilet, you watch in horror as the water starts to rise.

The Toxic Gas Poop ~~ The kind of poop that makes you pass out and fall of the toilet before you finish, and then you wake up in some strange South American town.

Dirty Bowl Poop ~~ The kind of poop that comes out in a million pieces a second, reminiscent of an avalanche - but with rocket propulsion, and splatters all over the toilet bowl.

The Windy City Poop ~~ When you sit down, and fart for so long and hard that you no longer need to take a poop.

Oh Poop! Poop ~~ You poop so much and wipe your butt so furiously you run out of toilet paper and you say OH ****!

The Never Ending Poop ~~ It's the poop that keeps running out of your butt like pee, and just when you start wiping your butt your stomach gargles and splash, more poop runs out. This always happens after eating at K.F.C.

...class!

Hi there,

Here is my 2 penny worth having built my house and now living there. I know that height of the cistern makes a difference to the quality of flush, so my back to the wall toilets have the cistern raised a little more than the usual, back to the wall furniture allows. Coupled with a bowl that seems to keep itself very clean, the result is a good flush. I therefore started using the 'water saving' function on the flush.

That started to cause problems in the sewer pipe leading to the mains. Basically, it blocked due to insufficient water providing the 'carrier.' So my feeling is, don't worry about water saving measures since the solids need water to encourage the flow along the buried pipe. In fact, I would suggest that water saving measures with regards to toilets, is one reason there seem to be a greater number of blockages.

Rex

Oh yeah, and I'd guess that rimless WCs are a gimmick to be best avoided - I can't see that they'd be able to flush as forcefully (BICBW)...

DJH - the model is?

That said, there are patches on our non rimless toilets that don't get flushed so yes, bowl design is important but suspect rim is not the critical issue

Oh, and thinking about siphon flushes. I know the problem with valve flushes is that they can leak, but it is possible to see the leak. So the real problem is with WCs where nobody takes action when they see a leak. A workplace where it isn't part of the cleaner's job decsription; some rented houses; any house without a water meter; millionaires' houses. But not, AFAICT, my house. Or have I missed something?

Siphon toilets break too

Posted By: ShevekBut less than valve right?

Well I for one don't know the answer to that. I've had to repair more siphons, but then I have hardly any experience with valves. I'd be interested if there are any published numbers, but then again the failure rate probably differs for different individual products.

Would it not be better overall if all WCs reverted to external overflows, preferably sited over an external door. There was nothing like walking in under a deluge to spur you to action!

On reflection - decided to post this in:

http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=10473

... instead - in case some people didn't read past all the poo jokes above.

... but whilst I think about it (seeing as this is the more scatological thread) - the Twyford Alcona seems a lot less "splashy" than the Ifo ES4 too - which will probably result in the use of less splash-busting toilet paper too I should think - so better for your drains and the trees.

Posted By: djhOh, and thinking about siphon flushes. I know the problem with valve flushes is that they can leak, but it is possible to see the leak. So the real problem is with WCs where nobody takes action when they see a leak.

Agreed. However, we have 4 valve flushes in our house & they have all leaked at one time or another. Sometimes it is almost imperceptible until the lime scale builds up. Sometimes its the toilet that I don't often use & I don't get to find out for a few weeks. Sometimes the leak is unbelievably fast & I need to turn the water off to look at the problem. This always happens as I'm going to bed, about to leave on a business trip or when the washing machine/dishwasher is running.

I would like to change them for variable flush siphon, but that's not straightforward with the bathroom furniture we have.

David