Fri, 07 Aug 2026 20:28:35 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175823#Comment_175823 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175823#Comment_175823 Fri, 10 May 2013 14:34:48 +0100 SteamyTea
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22480068

Bet British Gas a feeling a bit silly.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175838#Comment_175838 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175838#Comment_175838 Sat, 11 May 2013 00:31:37 +0100 CWatters Bet British Gas a feeling a bit silly.

Doesn't it mean their smart meter customers have to give up the smart features if they want to move supplier? So if they want smart metering aren't they tied to BG for another year or at least face limited choices?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175843#Comment_175843 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175843#Comment_175843 Sat, 11 May 2013 08:47:38 +0100 Fred56 In practice, my wife takes no notice of the monitor but she does watch the weather and checks the PV inverter panel - if it is set fair she puts a load in the washer (we save our washing for sunny days) or something in the oven. We also have a slow cooker and use that during daylight. A smart meter is not essential, just a bit of common sense.

The government and industry are not interested in saving energy, just charging more for it. I am certain my smart meters will be rendered redundant because I doubt the have demand related surcharging.

I have made inquiries about switching supplier but no others I approached could support the smart meters.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175847#Comment_175847 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175847#Comment_175847 Sat, 11 May 2013 09:09:39 +0100 CWatters https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175848#Comment_175848 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175848#Comment_175848 Sat, 11 May 2013 09:18:15 +0100 Triassic https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175851#Comment_175851 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175851#Comment_175851 Sat, 11 May 2013 09:47:05 +0100 HalcyonRichard
Richard]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175899#Comment_175899 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175899#Comment_175899 Sun, 12 May 2013 10:05:18 +0100 GaryB
I have halved my electrical consumption in 3 years using this approach.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175910#Comment_175910 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175910#Comment_175910 Sun, 12 May 2013 12:38:59 +0100 rhamdu
As far as I can see, the main purpose of smart meters is to introduce spot pricing of energy. This would make tariffs even more complicated and impossible to compare. It relies on market forces to influence consumers' behaviour - fat chance.

Peak load shedding would be much better achieved with smart appliances, or simply smart plugs, not smart meters. That could genuinely reduce the need for new power stations and pylons, and maximise our utilisation of renewables.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175911#Comment_175911 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175911#Comment_175911 Sun, 12 May 2013 13:03:55 +0100 barney
There is nothing like a kWh display and one which shows real money ticking away to get mum or dad shouting at the teenagers to turn things off when they finish using them

From there springs the behaviour changes and the downward pressure on energy use.

regards

Barney]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175912#Comment_175912 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175912#Comment_175912 Sun, 12 May 2013 13:28:47 +0100 rhamdu Posted By: barneyThere is nothing like a kWh display and one which shows real money ticking away to get mum or dad shouting at the teenagers to turn things off when they finish using them
You can have an energy monitor without a smart meter. I have one. It has two main limitations:

(1) the monitor doesn't know the actual cost of electricity. It uses whatever rate you key into it. Not necessarily a disadvantage. You could key in 50p/kWh to scare those teenagers proper!

(2) it doesn't apportion consumption between appliances. I think this is a more important deficiency. Consumers really need to know how much each appliance uses, not just instantaneously, but long-term. You want to be able to compare, say, a phone charger using a trickle of electricity all the time, with a toaster, more powerful but only used a few minutes a day.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175915#Comment_175915 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175915#Comment_175915 Sun, 12 May 2013 14:12:15 +0100 barney
For demand at an appliance or circuit level, then that's going to need lots of metering CT's added to houses.

It won't take Mr and Mrs Average long to work out that the meter is busily flashing away when they switch on the dryer and washing machine - it's a bit slower when it's just the TV and the PC's - and late at night when it's just dad in the kitchen locking up, he might well notice consunmption and wonder what it is.

Spot pricing was always going to happen - it's both the stick and the carrot to get consumption down for the more savvy consumers.

regards

Barney]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175916#Comment_175916 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175916#Comment_175916 Sun, 12 May 2013 14:30:16 +0100 Ed Davies Posted By: rhamduPeak load shedding would be much better achieved with smart appliances, or simply smart plugs, not smart meters.Yes, but there are only really two ways to motivate that to happen: regulation or spot pricing. Personally, I'd prefer spot pricing.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175923#Comment_175923 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175923#Comment_175923 Sun, 12 May 2013 17:27:33 +0100 skyewright https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175952#Comment_175952 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175952#Comment_175952 Mon, 13 May 2013 10:13:13 +0100 ted
DECC are evaluating bids from several communication companies to licence to provide the service. One bidder is Arqiva (sponsors of last night's BAFTAs) who are proposing long-range radio as a solution for areas with poor mobile phone signals.

See http://www.arqiva.com/smart_meters_and_grids/smartreach/ and http://smartreach.com/successful-smart-metering-trial-in-scotland/]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175954#Comment_175954 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175954#Comment_175954 Mon, 13 May 2013 10:35:49 +0100 rhamdu Posted By: Ed DaviesYes, but there are only really two ways to motivate that to happen: regulation or spot pricing. Personally, I'd prefer spot pricing.Spot pricing isn't the only way to motivate consumers. Utilities just need to offer some incentive such as a lower overall tariff when consumers agree to instal load-shedding technology.

ConEdison tried this in New York and reportedly it worked well. It didn't involve smart meters, just radio-controlled thermostats. http://www.good.is/posts/battling-heat-waves-by-making-the-grid-smarter/]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175957#Comment_175957 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175957#Comment_175957 Mon, 13 May 2013 11:04:25 +0100 Ed Davies
Mentioning cooking here might seem odd but maybe there's something to be said for encouraging the use of slow cookers during the day to reduce consumption during the evening peak.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175963#Comment_175963 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175963#Comment_175963 Mon, 13 May 2013 12:38:17 +0100 HalcyonRichard
If all homes did this then 30 million X 300 watts = 9 GW off peak + less energy used. Peak at this time of year is about 40 GW so it would make a big difference. See http://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

Smart meters seem expensive for what they can do

Richard]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175966#Comment_175966 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175966#Comment_175966 Mon, 13 May 2013 12:57:03 +0100 Ed Davies https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175968#Comment_175968 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175968#Comment_175968 Mon, 13 May 2013 13:13:53 +0100 Paul_B
I was thinking along the lines of increase demand for battery charging cars as this becomes more popular. The grid and electricity system need to be more flexible than they have been traditionally in order to design for an average than huge peaks and troughs. I'm getting more concerned that general Joe Bloggs wants to save money but doesn't want to change the way they live, so carrots and sticks are going to be the order of the day

Paul]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175971#Comment_175971 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175971#Comment_175971 Mon, 13 May 2013 13:32:24 +0100 HalcyonRichard
"Under EU legislation, every new fridge, freezer and fridge freezer sold in the UK must have an energy label (pictured right) that gives its energy rating. From 1 July 2012, any new model manufacturers make will have a rating of A+, A++ or A+++, with A+++ being the most energy-efficient."

From :- http://www.which.co.uk/energy/saving-money/guides/energy-labels-explained/fridge-and-freezer-energy-labels/

So my A+ fridge freezer rated at 1 kWh/day will still be available but nothing with larger consumption. The A+++ version will use half of this i.e. 0.5 kWh/day.

If all the older fridges/freezers are replaced over time then GW's will be knocked off peak demand AND overall consumption will fall AND people will save money. My fridge freezer payback is 10 years and allows me to freeze all my home grown produce so win win.

Richard]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175974#Comment_175974 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175974#Comment_175974 Mon, 13 May 2013 14:58:49 +0100 skyewright Posted By: tedDECC are evaluating bids from several communication companies to licence to provide the service. One bidder is Arqiva (sponsors of last night's BAFTAs) who are proposing long-range radio as a solution for areas with poor mobile phone signals.
Thanks ted.

"This Scottish trial covers meters located outside and deep inside buildings, in basements and in flats across rural and dense urban areas. Lochwinnoch is only 20 miles from Glasgow but is the type of rural location that alternative communications networks find hard to reach."

I did a quick google for Lochwinnoch. Looks like gently rolling landsacpe just along a valley from Glasgow. I suspect there are a good many places a bit harder to deal with than that. However it does sound to be technology that's already in use in difficult places, so maybe it will all be fine. ]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175980#Comment_175980 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=175980#Comment_175980 Mon, 13 May 2013 16:01:51 +0100 SteamyTea So to be of any use nearly all the fridges in the UK have to be running at the same time, and that has to be at a time of peak demand, then you could save 12 GW (based on 100Wp and a fridge and freezer for every house), or about a third of the UK peak load in (does depend what time of year it is). Now if we decided to do that kind of switching (an unlikely scenario anyway), we would be into real grid instability problems.
So let us get a get more realistic and just disconnect all domestic fridges at the peak times and stagger the switch on when the peak has passed. So if 10% of fridges are active during peak times, and they run for 10 minutes at a time, then we have 1.2 GW we can save, a couple of large CCGTs, but only for 10 minutes, or about the half the time it takes a turbine to come on stream. So all that would happen is that we would, in effect, take 200 MW out of use for an hour.
Just to make it really hard, generators get paid to be taken off line (really galls the REF ), but that is how the market works, so if load shedding was done at the relatively small scale there would not be any saving for the domestic user as 200 MW easily falls within normal variation.

What has to happen is being in a situation where where a 3 kW load can be guaranteed to be turned off, and that only really leaves stored hot water, and then you have to be sure that the heaters are on, which means denying service for several hours before, which only really lengthens the peak time.

Alternatively more pumped storage is needed to smooth out the peaks and troughs and rely on industry to play a bigger part (already plays the biggest part).

Just for a laugh, how much would we be willing to be paid to not use a kWh and how much extra would we be willing to pay for a kWh at peak time, let's do it as a percentage rather than a price. Can add in cash values later.
Without thinking too hard about it I would except 140% to not use but only and extra 25% to use at a peak time.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=176101#Comment_176101 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=10658&Focus=176101#Comment_176101 Wed, 15 May 2013 13:39:03 +0100 rhamdu Posted By: SteamyTeaJust for a laugh, how much would we be willing to be paid to not use a kWh and how much extra would we be willing to pay for a kWh at peak time, let's do it as a percentage rather than a price.

Not sure I quite understand the question. But I would need very little incentive to shift fridge-freezer kilowatts from peak time; a bit more for the dishwasher (we're a bit anal about never running it until it is completely full); even more for the washing machine (we need to be awake when the clothes are ready to hang up; hey, at 30C it doesn't use many kWh anyway!)

Lights, TV and computers need to be used when they need to be used. Not negotiable. But we are willing to invest in more efficient devices, avoid 50 inch plasma screens etc.

I use a car club, so I can't really comment on how tariffs would affect my charging pattern, were I to resume the ancient practice of owning a vehicle.]]>