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General: Filling gaps around window frames

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  1.  
    We are using Illbruck ME501 membrane stuck between window and EWI in the reveals on the outside and airtight membrane stuck to inside frame. I was planning to use spray expanding foam to fill the gap in between. Can someone explain whats the benefit of the expanding foam strips, I did like the look of them but they seemed expensive with little additional benefit? I can see they are useful if they being used to provide the airtight seal.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2014
     
    At a guess it may additionally be to do with the longevity, especially the neoprene type ones.
    Bog standard expanding foam does degrade, and I often wonder what state some of the fixing jobs that rely on it, will be like in 20 years or more. The good quality ones may have improved and lifespan may now be better.
  3.  
    So is it also used for fixing purposes?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2014
     
    The expanding foam tape/strip on a roll AFAIK isn't used for fixing, rather gap filling, the principle fix being mechanical. Expanding can type foams on the other hand have become a bit of a universal stick anything to anything solution. Maybe a short cut to decent workmanship, if you like. That's what I meant when I said if used in this way, "will it still hold in 20 years time".
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2014
     
    UV attacks this foam. Anything else? Critters?
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2014
     
    Yes, mice also eat the PU foam. I have seen evidence recently. I have redone the addected areas with embedded fine wire mesh and hope that will work.
  7.  
    Certainly in our case, with EWI rendered into the reveals, ICF walls and airtight membrane internally, I don't see the PU expanding foam in the middle being affected by UV or critters of any kind so would imagine it remain in tact long term. Actually now I think about it, I have set our windows out in line with the EWI so not sure it makes sense to use the expanding strips between windows and insulation anyway.
  8.  
    I have discovered the power of appealing to peoples better nature, veiled threats regarding our agreement, badgering and cajoling. Salt of the earth type has now done what he agreed with the Dow foam, mostly. I personally supervised the work being done.

    What a palaver!

    Peter
  9.  
    What a palaver!

    Peter

    Yes, but what a result!

    Well done.

    Nick
    • CommentAuthorPeter Clark
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2015 edited
     
    Sigh, I had a feeling this one would run and run.
    Photo attached.
    One uPVC window frame has developed yellow/brown marks on the inside after installation. No others have. All were foamed in with the same product (Dow great stuff PRO) designed for that purpose with uPVC frames.
    Builder had a look and said he would come back and try and clean it. Now ignoring efforts to communicate, not having returned.
    Supplier says its the Dow foam not being wiped off that window, and there is a solvent that would help, but they will not do it - up to builder. Builder not replying.

    Does anyone know what the solvent might be to remove yellow marks left by 'Dow great stuff pro' window foam?
    Or any other advice?
    Thanks,
    Peter
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2015
     
    is the polythene protection still on the window frame?
  12.  
    Posted By: tonyis the polythene protection still on the window frame?

    No.
    It looks like a kind of varnish, cannot be removed by scratching or scraping, at least not easily or without a lot of abrasion damage.
    Thanks for trying to help,
    peter
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2015
     
    OK then, lets cheat and fix a neat upvc trim over it almost to the edge of the glass bead, they are available in lots of sizes.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2015
     
    Posted By: Peter ClarkDoes anyone know what the solvent might be to remove yellow marks
    Ask the
    Posted By: Peter ClarkSupplier
  15.  
    If the plastic hasn't been painted you could try Everbuild Purex Foam Eater. If they have been painted it may still work but could soften the paint depending on the paint type.
  16.  
    Every type of PU foam I have ever used says removal after drying by abrasion only. I have had some luck in similar circumstances with a very sharp knife relying on the UPVC being new and smooth when it got dirty but great care required not to shave the plastic. Frankly I think you're buxxered. All you can do is sand it off, then sand the UPVC to try ansd get an even fine finish over the whole edge but you'll probably have to cover it it as suggested above. 100% sure builder will not come back as is in a no-win situation and you could ask for a new window.
  17.  
    Posted By: SteamyTea
    Posted By: Peter ClarkDoes anyone know what the solvent might be to remove yellow marks
    Ask the
    Posted By: Peter ClarkSupplier


    They say acetone, it does not work.

    Thanks to people who have made suggestions.

    There must be something I can do encourage them to fix the problem they created, surely?

    Peter
  18.  
    What is the best outcome you could imagine? Saying 'fix' is not enough. Only solutions are: covering, sanding/scraping with attempt at uniformity on the top, sanding and painting whole frame and replacing window.
  19.  
    Posted By: GotanewlifeWhat is the best outcome you could imagine? Saying 'fix' is not enough. Only solutions are: covering, sanding/scraping with attempt at uniformity on the top, sanding and painting whole frame and replacing window.


    Replacement will do, that is what he owes me, but how can I persuade him of that?

    Peter
  20.  
    It has just occurred to me that maybe this highlights the difference between PVC and timber windows?
    PVC being "non-maintainable" as opposed to "maintenance-free".
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2015 edited
     
    I think this will do it, not sure what it does to the PVC though:
    http://www.dow.com/gco/prod/meth_ch/meth_svg_n.htm
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2015
     
    Sounds awful like chloroform to me or trichloroethane huge ozone depletion potential.
  23.  
    Posted By: Peter ClarkReplacement will do, that is what he owes me, but how can I persuade him of that?
    You know that's not going to happen!!! Get over it and focus on the possible.
  24.  
    Posted By: Gotanewlife
    Posted By: Peter ClarkReplacement will do, that is what he owes me, but how can I persuade him of that?
    You know that's not going to happen!!! Get over it and focus on the possible.

    Gotanewlife is probably right - I would start off with the request to replace as the initial negotiating position and work down from there. - Mention the small claims court fairly early on!
    It also depends if you want any more work done or whether there is any thing else outstanding in either direction, - work from them or cash from you.
  25.  
    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryI would start off with the request to replace as the initial negotiating position and work down from there. - Mention the small claims court fairly early on

    I appreciate people trying to help.
    The current problem is that the builder does not reply to emails or letters or telephone messages. What is the best way to proceed?


    Posted By: GotanewlifeYou know that's not going to happen

    I find this a bit confusing - he supplied something that is clearly not right, I have rights, how can I find out what they are and assert them?

    Thanks again,

    Peter
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2015
     
    trading standards!
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2015
     
    You need to get 3 sets of quotes for putting it right, and then issue court proceedings.
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2015 edited
     
    Posted By: Peter Clark....
    One uPVC window frame has developed yellow/brown marks on the inside after installation. No others have. All were foamed in with the same product ...


    I notice you used the word developed. I have also noticed a few patches of similar staining developing after I foamed in my windows. I didn't use the exact same product, but a similar low expanding PU foam (I expect) and I'm fairly sure the patches have become more apparent (probably the yellow colour has darkened) with time. My stains can be removed using a cream cleaner and some fairly aggressive scrubbing. YMMV.
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2015
     
    A decent upvc window supplier will sell you a kit comprising of a lubricant and different grades of sanding pads which you use in sequence to achieve a polished finish. The kits are cheap and you have nothing to loose by trying it out. It is a laborious process but worked well for me on a small area.
  30.  
    Great advice revor - I had never heard of such things but seems obvious now. Peter, I was a bit brusque, sorry, if you have nothing 'on' the guy, ie a long relationship, money owed to him, the prospect of lots more work going his way, friends in high places etc then there can only be 3 ways forward: he does it (replaces window)voluntarily because he is an honorable man (not the case as he is not responding), small claims court or you fix it yourself.

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