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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeNov 27th 2014
    Posted By: bot de pailleAgain I dont undertsand this logic. You are saying we have to change loads to meet renewables, rather than storing the energy from reneawables to use it during peak times?
    Yes, for some loads that would be sensible.

    this means every one going to work at different times, half the population working during the night, some people eating diner and going to bed at 3pm... doesnt make sense
    Now it's you taking the weasel; why does it have to be a simple either/or? Of course we need to store some energy for use at times when it's convenient. On the other hand, where we can reasonably easily shift the time of use of loads to match generation (or reduced demand) then we should do so as well.

    What would be very stupid would be to store energy in one place then move it elsewhere to store. For example, if it's windy in the day we should use the energy available immediately to heat up thermal stores rather than use it to pump water up a hill then let it run down the following night to heat the thermal stores which are set to only run then just because historically electricity was cheaper at night.

    In general, I think we need to set things up to be a bit more flexible and adaptable. It doesn't mean we have to take it to silly extremes.
    Tony asked how much power the smart meters use - I found this spec on-line:


    Looks like around 1.5W = so 13.5kWh per year.

    I'm not sure how much power mechanical meters consume, but it's definitely not zero.

    Paul in Montreal.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 27th 2014
    May be I should have asked how much more they consume than an average standard meter:shamed:

    Multiply that by the number of domestic meters in the UK and we will need another large power station!

    I seriously hope that they get dropped.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeNov 27th 2014
    At least for someone with PV, once local stored energy systems becomes cheaper, the energy should be stored in the home, topped up with PV, and then at time of least demand if not enough PV.

    Maybe even sending 12v or 24v direct to all the LED lights without converting to 240v.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 27th 2014
    No because the energy will still be used hence unavailable for use elsewhere, 12v connection would be expensive, and the number of homes with pv is so small that we would still need another power station anyway.
    Posted By: tonyMultiply that by the number of domestic meters in the UK and we will need another large power station!

    Don't be so hyperbolic Tony. Say there are 25Million households in the UK, if they all had a smart meter, that would be 38MW - that is not a large power station. Some googling revealed that the old-fashioned electro-mechanical meters consume around 2W (which is not recorded by the meter) plus power (that is recorded) that's proportional to the power delivered to the house - so the new smart meters actually save energy.

    Paul in Montreal.
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2014 edited
    Here is the latest revised spec for smart metering in the UK

    Good luck with it.
    • CommentAuthorbxman
    • CommentTimeDec 6th 2014 edited
    A little worrying I found these quotes looks like it is all a done deal
    Is anyone going to for-go an £11 billion bonanza

    For the sake of an efficient system that puts the Customer and the envioriment first .

    I think not ..
    From http://www.gemserv.com/images/pdf/Gemserv_Annual_Report_v3.0_Reduced.pdf

    Extracts from the Chairman and CEO report

    Our recent contract
    wins have cemented our
    place in the markets in which
    we operate and enhanced
    our long-term prospects.

    The Smart Energy Code (SEC) is an
    industry-wide agreement that governs the rollout
    and ongoing operations of the GB Smart Metering
    Programme. Gemserv won a major contract worth £10
    million over a four year term to provide secretarial and
    administrative support to SEC and the SEC Panel. This
    contract has allowed us to play a central role in an £11
    billion national infrastructure programme as it moves
    from the foundation stages to mass rollout and beyond.
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