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General: Elon Musk’s master plan for Tesla is self-driving cars and trucks powered by the sun

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    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2016
     
    Posted By: SteamyTea
    Then, though phone GPS and historic records, they can be moved to the most likely spot to 'pick up passengers' when needed.

    Ah, yes. Mobile phone coverage. I thought that might come into it.

    http://ukmobilecoverage.co.uk/

    Pick a network. any network. That's still a work in progress around here, and perhaps another indicator of the potential issues for universal roll out.

    Which gets back to my earlier query of:
    In this utopian driverless taxi based system, who actually owns and maintains the cars? Who runs the system? Government, mega corps, or hundreds of thousands of small businesses & an Uber style system.

    Perhaps that should be " owns and maintains the cars and infrastructure"?

    Posted By: SteamyTeaBusiness has a good track record of innovation and filling niches.

    Yes. Profitable niches. The low hanging fruit of well populated areas were much in demand for the roll outs of cable, mobile phone cell networks, Broadband, etc., but how many are keen to serve remote areas?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2016
     
    Now that Openreach has missed failed numerous targets in getting rural Devon wired up, now the plan is to flood 1,646 sqkm of Dartmoor and Exmoor with public wifi from 120 transmitters http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-35689534 .

    There are those of us who treat our homes as a refuge from wifi - and even from mobile phone signal. So not everyone's happy http://www.es-uk.info/other-news/81-wi-fi-free-dartmoor.html
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2016 edited
     
    You will be moving to the Lizard Peninsular then, the home of radio transmission. No signal down there, well apart from VHF radio.

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/how-to/a11792/how-to-fight-rf-interference-with-your-gadgets/
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2016 edited
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaYou will be moving to the Lizard Peninsular then
    Wouldn't mind - how far south can you get?

    Re: spectrum congestion/interference, https://spectrumcollaborationchallenge.com. Look forward to the day when the present 'enclosure' of the 'commons' of the EM spectrum (govts grabbing the right to auction sections of what was hitherto 'everyone's') will collapse when all devices learn to auto-negotiate and adapt on-the-fly between themselves for frequency - more like a distributed IP-like protocol than a central control system.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2016 edited
     
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2016 edited
     
    Posted By: fostertomWouldn't mind - how far south can you get?
    Till you get wet
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2016
     
    Stay in Europe 48:Leave 52
    Closest you can get to Europe - Lizard Point Cafe 49.9582:Rest of UK 50+
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2016
     
    Posted By: fostertomLizard Point Cafe 49.9582

    I think the folk in Dover might argue with your idea that "lowest latitude (& thus furthest South)" equals "closest to Europe"! :surprised:
    • CommentAuthorbarney
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2016
     
    LoL - Fog in the Channel - Europe cut off !!

    Barney
  10.  
    Uber has brought up the first 2 years production i heard
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2016
     
    The people of Penzance my disagree too, they don't forget down here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cornwall
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2016
     
    Blimey I never knew that. Armada 1588, Battle of Cornwall 1595 - we've been taught that the Armada debacle dented Spanish power and finished off Spanish ambitions re: England, but apparently Spain was still v much in the game - "the Spanish commander promised to build a Catholic church on its site once England had been conquered".

    Anyway, what's it got to do with Uber?!
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2016
     
    Posted By: fostertomAnyway, what's it got to do with Uber?!

    I think the Uber reference was possibly an on topic answer to my:
    In this utopian driverless taxi based system, who actually owns and maintains the cars? Who runs the system? Government, mega corps, or hundreds of thousands of small businesses & an Uber style system.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2016
     
    I know - was just trying to confuse ST!
    • CommentAuthorMarkyP
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2016 edited
     
    Posted By: skyewright
    Posted By: fostertomLizard Point Cafe 49.9582

    I think the folk in Dover might argue with your idea that "lowest latitude (& thus furthest South)" equals "closest to Europe"!https:///newforum/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/surprised.gif" alt=":surprised:" title=":surprised:" >


    I live in Deal, was on the beach yesterday, Europe clearly visible across the channel. If I'd gone a mile or two down the coast, up on the white cliffs, I'd have picked up french mobile phone signal, EU roaming charges used to be a big issue for us Kent coast dwellers - you'd spend half your day on a french network.
  16.  
    Posted By: MarkyPI live in Deal, was on the beach yesterday, Europe clearly visible across the channel.


    Surely you mean France visible across the channel? The UK is still in Europe for now :)

    Paul in Montreal.
    • CommentAuthorsnyggapa
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2016
     
    The UK will be in Europe for the forseeable future too unless something catastrophic happens to geography.

    Whether we are in the EU - that is a different matter :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2016
     
    If all the ice on Greenland falls into the sea, there will be a large gravity well and that will pull all the water out of the English Channel. Doggerland will be real again, though not sure what will happen there. And the the fish mines will close.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2016
     
    There, ST's seen the light at last. What about Lyonese? Morpurgo says Arthur's still asleep under the Scillies.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2016
     
    My mate has just got back from the Scillies, that are all asleep, drunk again, the lot of them.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2016 edited
     
    Trucks too

    http://qz.com/656104/a-fleet-of-trucks-just-drove-themselves-across-europe

    "When trucks autonomously follow one another, it’s called “platooning.” They’re connected by wifi and can leave a much smaller gap between vehicles than when humans are at the wheel. Platooning can reduce fuel use by up to 15%, prevent human error from causing accidents, and reduce congestion. It also can reduce expenses."

    This (and similar for cars, or Sinclair C5-like transportation pods) pretty well destroys the case for rail (freight, commuter and cross country) except (perhaps) HST.

    https://www.virgin.com/virgin-unite/how-tech-and-innovation-are-transforming-trucking-good
    • CommentAuthorJamster
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2016 edited
     
    Posted By: fostertomThis (and similar for cars, or Sinclair C5-like transportation pods) pretty well destroys the case for rail (freight, commuter and cross country) except (perhaps) HST.


    What about fuel efficiency and emissions TF? That was my first thought, especially for freight?

    edit - fuel efficiency specifically...
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2016 edited
     
    Don't know, or rather I haven't read about that, but I see no reason why self-driving platooned trucks and ''cars" (if they're still going to be called that) shouldn't equal rail.
    Just having a motor on each unit instead of one big one is no obstacle to that.
    Certainly, trucks and 'cars' can be far lighter per tonne or per person than any rail solution, tho rubber-tyred rolling resistance will be higher than rail, poss aerodynamic drag too.

    The major advantage is that each truck, each 'car' could start and end its journey individually, direct to/from local destination, seamlessly joining and leaving the trunk-route Platooned convoy without interupting it and without the discontinuity of arriving at the station and transfering to bus/taxi, or even walking the last mile (and equiv for freight). In urban areas, cars and trucks could seamlessly join and leave, switch between, a 'fractal' network of local Platoons, which constantly form and dissolve as needed.

    There might or might not the more trucks and 'cars' moving on the road at any time, but they'd travel mainly in close convoy (Platoon), be efficiently routed, not dawdling at traffic lights but seamlessly negotiating with each other - and would need minimal parking space by the roadside or in carparks because once unloaded they'd be off to the next customer.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2016
     
    Posted By: fostertomDon't know, or rather I haven't read about that, but I see no reason why self-driving platooned trucks and ''cars" (if they're still going to be called that) shouldn't equal rail.


    A car with 3 empty seats and a empty boot takes up a lot more space then one seat on the train.
    • CommentAuthorJamster
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2016
     
    Yes, I see your point about autonomous road trains working well - I suppose it depends on what we think will need to be hauled around the place in 2040!

    My personal hope re personal transport is that we move on a bit from location based work migration to sit at a desk for the sake of it to something a little smarter / home based where the role allows it. Personally I think I could be as effective if home-based for probably 4 out of 5 days / week. Phone systems are already via a Skype-based internet virtual system and all the work I do is computer-based. The only thing keeping me at a desk and condemning me to a commute is an outdated view of how 'work' works...

    Someone mentioned the change in rural living recently - might have been you Tom - this sort of change would be massive for all sorts of communities and hopefully cut back on a few roads too...
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2016 edited
     
    Posted By: ringiA car with 3 empty seats and a empty boot takes up a lot more space then one seat on the train.
    I think we'll be ordering up whatever kind of vehicle we need for the current trip - a 1-person Sinclair C5 pod, a 5-seater for the school run, a pickup to go to the builders merchant ... All these will travel in Platoon, the C5 confident that the monster truck 2m behind won't run it over ...
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2016
     
    One problem with trains, as they are used now, is that they end up empty at the wrong place. So they need a lot of 'shuffling' about. The same is true of aircraft (think 9/11 and Icelandic volcano). With small vehicles, you only have to move the minimum needed, which may be 1 or 1000000.
    As it is accelerating mass that uses the most energy (compared to starting, rolling and air resistance), the less overall mass you need to move about, the better.

    It would also be possible to design a 'pod' that is yours, and just the traction unit turns up to move you and your pod about. That way you can have customisation that is individual to your needs i.e. I don't need child seats, but an ashtray would be good.
    • CommentAuthorringi
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2016
     
    Personally I would like to see a system like http://www.ultraglobalprt.com/ using newly build overhead “tracks” where needed but being extended to be “self driving” when in out of town areas. We do not have the space for self driving cars in most towns.

    The “pod” takes the passenger directory to their designation with no need to change, and the Heathrow T5 system has a waiting time of about 10s for a pod. Clearly if the system could pick you up from home, the waiting time would be more at home, but could still have the very short waiting time for the return trip from work.

    If we true believed in public transport we would be installing such overhead tracks along for example all the main roads in Cambridge connecting with all the part and ride sites, and the station, plus all the office parks.

    The price could be set depending on the demand, so as to get people to travel of "of peak" times.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2016
     
    Posted By: JamsterSomeone mentioned the change in rural living recently - might have been you Tom
    skyewright
    Posted By: Jamsterhopefully cut back on a few roads too
    narrow the ones we've got, widen the people trees garden space
    • CommentAuthorskyewright
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2016
     
    Posted By: SteamyTeaIt would also be possible to design a 'pod' that is yours, and just the traction unit turns up to move you and your pod about.

    but pods would require the whole platoon to come right to your door (& destination) and stop to pick you up (let you off). A motorised unit could filter into the nearest appropriate moving platoon, or just take you direct if that is more efficient.

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