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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2020
     
    Owlman - thanks for your response. I understand where you are coming from with your idea of having two external units rather than one massive one but I don't think I will be allowed more than one outdoor ASHP unit. This is an extract from the Welsh Gov website regarding installation of air source heat pumps:

    **********************************************************************************************************************************
    Installation of one air source heat pump used solely for heating purposes is normally permitted, provided that it complies with the MCS Planning Standards (or equivalent standards) and subject to the following conditions:

    no more than one air source heat pump can be installed on (or within the curtilage of) your property

    the volume of the air source heat pump's outdoor compressor unit (including any housing) must not exceed one cubic metre

    no part of the air source heat pump can be installed within three metres of the boundary of your property

    if in the case of the installation of an air source heat pump, a stand alone wind turbine is installed within the curtilage of the dwellinghouse

    the air source heat pump can not be installed on a pitched roof

    if installed on a flat roof, the air source heat pump must not be sited within one metre of the external edge of that roof

    the air source heat pump cannot be installed on a wall or roof which fronts a highway.

    An air source heat pump must be sited to have a minimal effect on the external appearance of your property and the wider amenity of the area. For more details on restrictions applying to the installation of air source heat pumps, you should contact your local planning authority.

    **********************************************************************************************************************************
    Condition number 1 also states that the ASHP can only be used for heating purposes, so I that rules out cooling, not that I think I would ever need to use that function! Does that mean that I would not need condensate drains then? If I did need them then that would be quite a headache and means that all the indoor units could only be put on exterior facing walls!
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2020 edited
     
    I haven't looked into it Jeff, but some compressors are twins, i.e one atop the other. It may be possible to install one of them as a single install but only use one half initially, on a split, leaving the other for a later date. It may be worth a look.
    Re condensate drains: They very often have mini pumps located in the indoor unit cabinet, so don't worry about exterior walls.
    Re heating only: Well, two words spring to mind.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2020
     
    Jeff, are those the rules for permitted development? If so, all it means is that you would need planning permission if you wanted to do more/something else.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2020
     
    Posted By: owlmanI haven't looked into it Jeff, but some compressors are twins, i.e one atop the other. It may be possible to install one of them as a single install but only use one half initially, on a split, leaving the other for a later date. It may be worth a look.
    Re condensate drains: They very often have mini pumps located in the indoor unit cabinet, so don't worry about exterior walls.
    Re heating only: Well, two words spring to mind.


    OK, thanks. I'll look into that. See also the reply from djh although I wouldn't relish the idea of looking for planning permission. Smacks of lots of paperwork and hefty LA fees!

    Regarding condensate then, I would have to run some drainage tubing from the indoor units to outside. Would you combine them all into one outlet? Regarding heating only - would the second word be "off" by chance?
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2020
     
    Posted By: djhJeff, are those the rules for permitted development? If so, all it means is that you would need planning permission if you wanted to do more/something else.


    Yes, but as I said in my reply to Owlman, I would not relish the idea of going for planning permission - it smacks of lots of bureaucracy and hefty LA fees! But if it has to be.....
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeOct 27th 2020
     
    Hi Jeff, The condensate water from my indoor unit is on a simple gravity flow as the unit is in the loft, so was easy to fit.
    For wall/ceiling indoor units I think the condensate first goes into an internal reservoir, which when full triggers a mini pump to empty it to outside. I haven't looked into how the drain after the pump is configured but it can't be that complicated, plus you're presumably not talking huge pipework and eventually I guess it's gravity flow.

    NB Off: indeed Jeff, lots of prefixes to choose. :wink:
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeOct 27th 2020 edited
     
    Owlman - ok, thanks, that sounds a lot less daunting. I have had a look on the Internet and it seems that I might have to buy mini-pumps to go inside the indoor units depending on their location i.e. whether or not I can simply use gravity flow.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeOct 27th 2020
     
    Obviously positioning on an outside wall make fitting much easier. However on my next A2A project, ( A two split I think ), both units may be fairly central in the home, but it doesn't over concern me. As with the refrigerant pipework I'm going to try and keep the pipe runs from outside to the unit continuous, i.e. no joins.
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2020
     
    JeffB

    I'm not suggesting you should or shouldn't apply for planning regarding a possible ASHP, but there's nothing to worry about in terms of costs/fees.

    The homeowner LA fees will likely be around £200. You'll need drawings, which your LA will have a guidance document to explain exactly what's required, but a location map showing your house and 100m all around can be bought on line for about £15, and you can hand draw floor plans, roof plans, elevations, plot plan etc. I've seen some really rubbish quality drawings as planning applications, so don't worry if you think your artistic skills may not be up to it. LA's seem to go easier on homeowner applications, than when a professional applies on their behalf.

    So for under £250, and a few hours measuring and drawing, you could have the application submitted.

    There is a note that you need to comply with "MCS020 Planning Standards", whatever that refers to - interested parties can google that.
  1.  
    Owlman, how noisy is the indoor unit - would you have it in a bedroom?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2020
     
    Hi Will, My system is ducted, I guess you're talking about the wall or ceiling hung indoor units? I can't answer that but my guess is there will be some fan noise and the only advice I could give would be to carefully compare individual manufacturers specs. I certainly will, during my next project for those types of unit.
    My loft mounted indoor unit feeds the supply flow through quite large diameter rigid, spiral, insulated ductwork; similarly the return both via ceiling registers. At the dead of night you can hear the fan very faintly on speed 1 and 2 ( there are 5 ). During the day generally any noise is lost within normal household activities.
    Likewise the outside compressor unit; there's much made about their noise, but mine is a well specced unit that constantly modulates, and when at it's lowest is incredibly quiet even when standing next to it.
    How noisy is MVHR in comparison, I've no idea? In a bedroom I guess it depends on how light a sleeper you are, and your locality, isolated rural or urban.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2020
     
    Posted By: GreenPaddyJeffB

    but a location map showing your house and 100m all around can be bought on line for about £15, and you can hand draw floor plans, roof plans, elevations, plot plan etc.


    Thanks GreenPaddy. Do you have a link where I can find this please?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2020
     
    Posted By: WillInAberdeenOwlman, how noisy is the indoor unit - would you have it in a bedroom?

    The indoor units are often used in bedrooms in hot climates, but maybe the situation is different. A bit of noise from the A/C or from an overhead fan is preferable to stifling in still air. At any event you soon get used to them.
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2020
     
    JeffB - link for purchasing maps (no connection, just use them regularly)

    https://www.ukplanningmaps.com/

    Get your LA planning submission guidence document, and scrutinise it carefully. It's not that it's complicated, but in my experience, the least variation from what has been requested, is an excuse to reject. I had a rejection once because on the location plan, they noted the house wall was 2 metres different from my detail drawings. The Location plan was at a scale 1:1250.

    I pointed out that the thickness of the line alone was over 1 metre at that scale, and in any case, location plans are just so people know where abouts in their area, the application relates to. Take a breath, smile, and move forward.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2020
     
    Posted By: GreenPaddyJeffB - link for purchasing maps (no connection, just use them regularly)

    https://www.ukplanningmaps.com/" rel="nofollow" >https://www.ukplanningmaps.com/


    Many thanks.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2020
     
    Posted By: GreenPaddylink for purchasing maps

    FWIW, I looked up my address on that site and the boundaries are wrong. I've asked them where the data comes from and how to get it corrected.
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeOct 31st 2020
     
    DJH, it comes from the OS. I had the same problem on a previous project, and Ukplanningmaps guys gave me a contact at OS, to whom I sent the required correction.

    TBH, I've never checked to see if it has been corrected - I hand amended the map to get it into the planning system.

    You might need to go via Land Registry first/aswell, since it's a boundary issue?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeOct 31st 2020 edited
     
    Posted By: djh
    Posted By: GreenPaddylink for purchasing maps

    FWIW, I looked up my address on that site and the boundaries are wrong. I've asked them where the data comes from and how to get it corrected.
    .



    I did the same and they're wrong too. In my experience I don't think there's much chance of changing it.
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