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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthortrigger
    • CommentTimeMay 3rd 2008
     
    Could anyone please give me advice on connecting a new woodburning stove to an existing oil fired pressurised system, i have been told it can be done by using a heat leak radiator.... what is this where does it go and how does it work? I am in the building trade , and although i can solder a joint and"blunder through...i am totally lost on this ...so why change from oil because i have spent £1100 on oil since just before xmas!! Any help greatly appreciated.
    trigger
  1.  
    Google H2 panels and Dunsley neutralisers, alternatively hook both up to an accumulator tank.
    • CommentAuthortrigger
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2008
     
    thanks nicky but i already had emailed dunsley the other day with this question and they simpley said "it cant be done". Any info on the heat leak radiatorand how it works?
    • CommentAuthorDantenz
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2008
     
    If I understand you to mean an unvented hot water cylinder when you say "existing pressurised system" then NO you can't. A wood burner is classified as an uncontrollable heat souce and such heating appliances must never be connected to an unvented cylinder as laid out by section G3 building regulations.
    • CommentAuthorbobo
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2008
     
    You could fit a twin coil cylinder and have one coil heated by woodburner and vented and one by the oil boiler as part of the sealed system.
    I have just fitted a twin coil for someone but with solar and oil.
    Standard cylinder coils are only tested to 3 bar but your PRV on the oil boiler will protect it.
    Lots of these system boilers are now installed to give pressurised heating systems (with no tanks involved) and cylinder fed domestic water with a header tank.
    • CommentAuthortrigger
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2008
     
    hi bobo , this is starting to sound like im getting somewhere! Any links to get info on these ...cost etc? thanks for your help!
  2.  
    Hi Trigger.
    You do need some help. I've only been in the Plumbing & Heating industry for 42 years, I was taught to wipe joints on lead pipe with pot and laddle and soil fuel was king. Its like riding a bike, you never forget and what you are trying to do is achievable. But before I can give you the answers you need I need some more information about just what you want to do.

    1: What is the output of the wood burner?

    2: Do you want to suppliment the whole central heating system and only let the oil boiler fire when you are out and cannot keep a fire in the wood burner, or the oil boiler to top up the wood burner in extreeme conditions?

    3: Do you want the wood burner just to heat the cylinder to give you hot water?

    4: When you say you have a pressurised system I take it you meant the heating system is a sealed system, no feed and expansion tank

    5: Is the cylinder mains unvented as well or does it have a supply tank and just the heating side pressurised.

    Once you give me the answers to the above I can tell you how to legally intergate the two heat sources.

    As Dantenz rightly says a wood burner is can become an uncontrolable appliance and special measures need to be inplace, but again it can be done.

    Regards Cliff ( The midnight plumber)
    • CommentAuthortrigger
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2008
     
    hi cliff,
    Well what i have is a worcester bosch oil fired combi boiler , no header tanks, or hot water cylinder, unvented , fitted about 3 years ago, but with the ever increasing cost of oil and the opportunity to fit a wood burning stove which can run rads as well has intrigued me! i was looking at the charnwood 16b or similar which gives 7k to the room installed and feeds up to 10 rads.So yes would like to run on solid fuel with the oil as a back up, not so fussed about the hot water aspect more on heat to the place wher i live is north facing and very cold! You obviously are conversant with this , could you also tell me about this heat leak radiator cant seem to get a response on that. Thanks for your time midnight plumber!!!!
    • CommentAuthorDantenz
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2008
     
    One suggestion would be to keep the combi boiler doing the HW so that the wood burner isn't supplimenting this. Could then connect both the boiler and wodburner into a thermal store (open vented mind you) which can be heated by either. A pipe stat on the woodburner brings on a circulating pump (P1) to heat the store, a cylinder stat on the store then brings on another pump (P2) so when upto temperature distributes the heat into the heating system. Same would happen with the boiler, when switched on it's own built in pump (P3) will circulate arond the thermal store, tank reaches temperature (P2) then circulates to heating system. Sytem will also work fine with both appliances on together.
    • CommentAuthortrigger
    • CommentTimeMay 5th 2008
     
    thanks dantenz it appears the midnight plumber has dissapeared into the sunset!!
  3.  
    Hi Trigger,
    In responce to your information my comments are as follows:-

    Heat leak radiator. Solid fuel appliances should be installed with a minimum dia of 28mm Flow & Return gravity circuit to an indirect cylinder, if their is little or no demand for hot water the cylinder can overheat and start to boil, to prevent this from happening a towel rail or radiator connected across the flow and returns acts a heat leak. Its very crude but works, the heat leak can be manually closed to improve recovery on cylinder in times of high hot water demand.

    Solid fuel appliances should never be connected to fully pumped systems or with zone valves unless they are the type that fail open.

    How to sort out your little project? it can be done but you have keep the sealed system that is part of the heat slave separate from the open vented system that you have to form for the wood burner. You have to use a thermal store to link both heating appliances but keeping the water thats inside them separate. You could buy an off the shelf thermal store but they are expensive, you can make your own with a pre-insulated indirect cylinder suitable to work with 10 metre head and with a high recovery coil.

    The cylinder/thermal store needs to be at least 1m above the wood burner, ideally at first floor level above the appliance, Flow and Return pipework from the wood burner need to be 28mm gravity, and no more than 10M away.

    The possibilities are endless, I can and do have bespoke cylinders manufactured with 3 or 4 coils in to link in solar pre-heat and hot water. You could leave the oil boiler feeding part of your hot water system say shower and kitchen sink, but have a bath/ baths feed from the store, that way you reduce your dependancy on oil. The store needs to be fitted with a thermostat that will bring on the oil boiler to top it up as and when needed.

    If you send me an email to warmwater@blueyonder.co.uk I will forward you a schematic drawing for the installation.

    regards Cliff. The midnight Plumber.
    • CommentAuthortrigger
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2008
     
    Cliff , thanks so much for your time and explanations ,very much appreciated!
    • CommentAuthorDantenz
    • CommentTimeMay 6th 2008
     
    Just one point Cliff - Energy efficiency under part L of building regs. calls for heating and hot water systems to be fully pumped these days. Does this not apply to solid fuel appliances?
  4.  
    The system will be fully pumped from the thermal store. Because of the uncontrolabilty of solid fuel you must have an unimpeded circulation from the boiler to a heat store / heat leak otherwise you have an explosion.
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