Tue, 14 Apr 2026 10:45:37 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=168&Focus=1846#Comment_1846 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=168&Focus=1846#Comment_1846 Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:03:17 +0100 arthur Renewable energy is seldom a free lunch and it seems to me that opportunities to increase it are fairly limited.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=168&Focus=1862#Comment_1862 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=168&Focus=1862#Comment_1862 Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:22:32 +0100 Chris Wardle
I would prefer to see the tax on the CO2 rather than energy as it will help to make the lower carbon technologies relatively more economic compared to fossil fuel burning and encourage investment in these technologies which we need as a response to Peak Oil.

As for protecting the poor, a system of rationing like Tradeable (carbon) Energy Quotas would be much fairer in the medium term but I think we need a carbon tax now while such a system is designed and put in place. That would allow the poor to sell their ration for cash if they didn't need it.

I think there are many opportunities for increasing renewables. We haven't begun to exploit wave and tidal power in this country. Off shore wind has potential as does solar. I'm more skeptical about the role of biofuels except coppiced timber for heating in rural areas which could be expanded over time (and provide much needed timber as well) simply due to insuffcient farmland which we need for growing food. Also, I doubt there is much potential for a lot of on shore wind because it will be opposed by locals and will adversely impact the landscape if done on a massive scale and the micro-wind turbines don't seem to work that well in urban areas dues to eddies etc. Surely there is further small scale hydro potential on our river systems at reasonable cost?

I see the main problem with renewables as the eratic output which means we need the ability to store energy or provide back-up generation. Output can be unpredictable, like wind and solar, or at certain times, like solar and tidal. Really, the cost of back-up generation like pumped storage, battery storage, or gas turbines should be factored into the cost of renewables when making a fair comparision with nuclear and carbon capture technologies which are by nature reliable in output. This doen't mean renewables would necessarily be uneconomic if a proper system for carbon taxation was introduced. We could then get rid of the inefficent and ineffective grant programmes and the ROCs etc and let the market do its work.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=168&Focus=1864#Comment_1864 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=168&Focus=1864#Comment_1864 Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:42:54 +0100 Guest
That is the most complete explanation I have seen so far. I agree with every point covered.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=168&Focus=1878#Comment_1878 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=168&Focus=1878#Comment_1878 Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:18:41 +0100 biffvernon
http://www.teqs.net/]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=168&Focus=1886#Comment_1886 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=168&Focus=1886#Comment_1886 Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:14:02 +0100 arthur
People already have the impression that its ok to use as much energy as you want if you have a green tarrif or an electric car or Toyota prius or if you offset your emissions by planting trees. A carbon tax tends to reinforce this notion. But the fact is that because of the limitations on renewable sources we desperately need to cut back our usage. There isn't enough clean energy to feel smug. The image that comes to mind is that advert for some supposedly eco energy tariff with someone having a big hot bath outdoors, their conscience presumably as clean as their body is going to be.

Carbon tax or general fuel tax, the difficulty will be getting the kind of rationing system you suggest in place. And also how to protect industries that cannot easily reduce their usage. I notice that Sweden which has a carbon tax exempts manafucturing and other industries.
I suspect that there may be big problems with blackmarket trading and people fiddling their meters and such if this kind of system was introduced.
Not reasons not to try though - just potential problems

BTW, the role of biofuels seems to me to be precisely to help solving the problem of the unpredictability of solar and wind. They're currently the only practical method of storing renewable energy (apart from pump storage where its possible).]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=168&Focus=1960#Comment_1960 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=168&Focus=1960#Comment_1960 Thu, 05 Apr 2007 14:24:21 +0100 Solar bore
Biofuels is good where for example the sugar companies make fuel (ethanol) out of the left overs from making sugar.

Personnel - y I think a Carbon Quota would be good it would encourage people to buy or lease solar thermal /PV equipment for there homes, although I do not think wind turbines on houses are practical for most of us.

I saw just that put up by windsave it is in what I believe is a very windy spot and its only produced 180 k watt in 5 months]]>