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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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  1.  
    Think it's time I bought one...

    looking for a Hybrid, going to try and cycle 4 miles to and form work and then use gravel paths, odd bit of off road with the kids etc.

    What's a good ebike these days or just get a kit and buy a secondhand (or even brand new) bike to convert?

    Thanks
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2021
     
    normal bike powered by muscles !
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2021
     
    https://www.orbea.com/gb-en/ebikes/road/gain the style and weight of a road bike, just 250W of assistance, battery hidden in the slim front tube, makes all the difference for the non-Lycra middle-aged, without being an effortless moped.
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2021
     
    Posted By: tonynormal bike powered by muscles !


    +1. Youll spend more time messing about with the charger than cycling 4 miles.
  2.  
    As above - unless you've got some steep hills or need to carry a lot of luggage that trip it really doesn't warrant an bike.

    4 miles is a 20 minute bike ride at a fairly leisurely pace. It's about how long it normally takes me to warm up - ie at that distance even on a warm day I'd probably not raise a sweat.
    • CommentAuthordereke
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2021
     
    Definitely get yourself an ebike. If you live somewhere flat sure you can get away without one. They are enablers though. So while you have a 4mile ride that you'd like to do you will find that now you can do a 24mile ride. It enables you to push yourself more and you will enjoy it more so you will again push yourself more.

    Or you could just use a completely manual bike just like you could build a timber frame house with a hammer rather than a nail gun. I know which one I'd choose.
  3.  
    So what bike would you recommend?
    • CommentAuthordereke
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2021
     
    Posted By: VictorianecoSo what bike would you recommend?


    Well I only have first hand experience of the Tern GSD which is absolutely brilliant but I don't think that is what you are looking for.

    My neighbour has a Cube hybrid which he loves, I think they are also on the lower end of the price spectrum.

    I've also been thinking about getting a gravel bike for pleasure riding. My short list is the Orbea that Tom linked to above and also the Boardman ADV 8.9E https://www.boardmanbikes.com/gb_en/products/2327-adv-8.9e.html

    I'm leaning towards the Boardman, it has a mid drive motor which are widely thought to be better on step hills which would be my primary use case.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2021 edited
     
    Posted By: derekewidely thought to be better on step hills
    Interesting - why so?
    • CommentAuthordereke
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2021
     
    Posted By: fostertomInteresting - why so?


    A mid drive motor assists your pedalling and still goes through the gears.
    A hub motor drives the wheel directly with no gearing.

    The torque is obviously quite good on an electric motor but as the hub motors are direct drive rather than geared it is not quite as good.

    Personally I've never ridden a hub motored bike and I know two people who have them and don't seem to have any issues on the hills around here. I'm just relaying what I've read in reviews and learnt from watching too much youtube.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2021
     
    Thanks, but sounds a bit falacious thinking (them not you) to me - think I'll relax about it!
    • CommentAuthordereke
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2021
     
    Posted By: fostertomThanks, but sounds a bit falacious thinking (them not you) to me - think I'll relax about it!


    Yeah I think the difference is probably smaller than what is made out. A lot of these reviews are by professional riders who are measuring every watt of power that is lost.

    Do you have the Orbea? How is it?
  4.  
    Crikey, the price of bicycles has gone up since my £100 "Northern Ridge" mountain bike in 1996
    My university friends had a whip-round to buy it for me when my car was stolen. Still have it (tyres are flat though).

    I used to do 6 miles each way to work and back in about half an hour, quite a hilly route with one massive hill on the way there in the morning. (nice and easy on the way home!)

    I did briefly look in to getting an e-bike a couple of years ago to do the 33 mile commute to work, tried to work out how long it would take me etc. but I had bought a Renault Zoe by then so didn't think it was viable. Different job now, closer to home, and working from home anyway so no longer urgent.

    I have seen quite a few e-bikes going past recently while out walking the dog and they look like jolly good fun.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2021 edited
     
    About 18+ years ago my partner converted a standard Dawes road bike to electric with a Heinzmann hub motor. She did a 15 mile commute and back for years with several long hills with no problems.

    https://www.heinzmann-electric-motors.com/en/applications/e-bikes-cargo-bikes?tabid=0
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2021
     
    I have an Orbea Gain - it's v tall and handsome, light like a road bike, easy to pedal home if the battery dies. Get the bare-bones version, don't pay the large extra for mudguards, rack, lights etc, which make it look staid - better and cheaper to choose aftermarket fittings like shortie mudguards. Actually don't need a front guard as the front tube has a channel-shaped underside which catches most of the spray.

    I got myself bike-fitted beforehand and the geometry of the Gain in XXL size came closest of any bike on the database - luckily as that's what I wanted - just need a longer handlebar stem (awaited). Even at XXL, the saddle is really high, so I feel like a long way of the ground, with quite short wheelbase, which did throw me off twice until I got used to it - from start on a steep uphill on full assist plus full effort from me, sitting rather than standing, my CofG was so rearward and high that it did a wheelie and over sideways. That's with only 250W max assist.

    That 250W partial-assist (rather than full-moped effect like my wife's much heavier 700W) does leave me v slow (if not walking it) on steep hills, while my wife sails up. I could get fitter, if I did it more regularly.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2021
     
    Yes Tom, it was the moped effect of the Dawes/Heinzmann conversion that I liked. With a full battery and twist grip acceleration it went up hills like stink, sailing past "lesser lycra-clad mortals" still on pure pedal power and with the extra weight, speeding down the other side. The extra power tended to quickly knacker the brakes though.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2021
     
    I believe the thinking on motor position is that mid-mounted motors can benefit from the variable gearing, whilst hub-mounted motors are apparently normally mounted in the front wheel and can suffer from problems going up hill and from steering problems. There are also some hub motors with internal gearing, although I don't know where they are used.

    I have an e-bike with a single speed hub motor mounted in the rear wheel, with a single speed chain gear (a RadRunner). I hardly ever use it because its so much faff setting and unsetting the lock (Abus) and the alarm (Bouh), plus I'm normally shopping once a week and it's sometimes problematic getting it all into the various carriers. Sadly it's easier just to climb into the car. :( I'm disappointed both in myself and in the bike technology. It goes well enough when I do use it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2021 edited
     
    Posted By: djhmid-mounted motors can benefit from the variable gearing
    That's just a matter of motor design - a hub motor has to work at very low revs, which means bulk, prob large diameter one way or another. It's much easier if the motor can run faster, by assuming it's geared-up (by the derailleur) when the bike's going slow. Either way the system will (or can) be designed to deliver whatever torque-to-road-speed curve is desired, just more of a challenge with a hub motor. If a bike's torque curve is poor, it's not due to hub vs mid mount principle.

    VH Seamus took me to visit a crazy inventor in N Devon who was developing radical wind turbine design using ungeared therefore v low speed generator - it was thin but its diameter was huge! It seems that for even mini-cars, it can't be done with a direct-drive motor in each wheel hub - just think what that would save - no central engine bay, no drive shafts, 4WD ...

    In a vehicle with sprung suspension (unlike 'proper' bikes), the unsprung weight (wheel, hub, brake, half of the shaft, linkage, shock) has to be as momentum-less as poss relative to the sprung (body) momentum, hence alloy wheels, inboard brakes etc. Adding a heavy hub motor while prob also lightweighting the body goes against that - until springless AI-actuated suspensions eliminate the sprung-to-unsprung problem.
    • CommentAuthorBeau
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2021
     
    Loving my EMTB but for road riding, I wouldn't be so keen on an e-bike. Presuming you ride a bit 15.5mph is easily and often passed and then all the extra weight of an e-bike makes it rather heavy going. Even with my EMTB you get over 15.5mph quite often on the flat and it's a cumbersome lump after that. Maybe the Fazua drive which is much lighter weight might be a good option.
  5.  
    I'm quite tempted by the apparent simplicity of this option:
    https://www.swytchbike.com/p/universal-ebike-conversion-kit/

    All the caveats about front hubs mentioned above still apply, but if you have an existing bike this is the lower-embodied-carbon and lower-cost route to trying out an e-bike.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2021
     
    The caveats were about hub motor, not about 'front' hub. The Orbea has rear hub motor. Front hub would raise an additional set of doubts.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2021
     
    Posted By: fostertomThe caveats were about hub motor, not about 'front' hub.

    Maybe you expressed somesuch, but the comments I reported were specifically about the front hub.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2021 edited
     
    Well, just one para from you was specifically about front hub. I missed that - but I would agree more on caveats about front hub motor than about hub motors in general. For example with rear hub motor
    Posted By: fostertomfrom start on a steep uphill on full assist plus full effort from me, sitting rather than standing, my CofG was so rearward and high that it did a wheelie and over sideways.
    but with front it wd have been wheelspin instead, maybe even oscillating. Not good. Affects steering? I can imagine something but not obvious what effect.
    • CommentAuthorGareth J
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2021
     
    Ebikes are great. I built a kit one a couple years ago and helped a few friends with kits who bought one off the back of playing with mine.

    If you're handy with tools, a kit will get you more for your money and, should you feel the need, circumvent the quite restrictive 15.5mph rule for when you're off-road. The swytch kits are relatively expensive and low performance for what they are but very convenient and hopefully have decent customer service. Woosh do good kits but importing direct from China gives biggest performance per £, though after sales care is obviously the big gamble.

    They can make difficult commutes very doable without the need to arrive drenched in sweat. In summer, my partner reckons it's quicker to ride the 10miles than drive, factoring in traffic and parking in summer.

    Downsides are cost. If you think it will save money, do some back of the envelope calcs. I reckoned break even would be 3000-4000 miles compared with driving. We are unlikely to achieve that within 3 yrs (currently on about 1800mi) after which the battery usefulness will be much reduced, whether you've used lots or not that much (unless you really cosset it). After two years the degredation is noticible but it's not likely to be a write off next year so am very happy with it overall.
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2021
     
    Posted By: Gareth J
    should you feel the need, circumvent the quite restrictive 15.5mph rule for when you're off-road.


    Just to clarify that the "off road" would need to be privately owned land with the owners permission. Anything else is illegal riding of a motorcycle.

    The "restrictive" rule is there for a very good reason.
    • CommentAuthorGareth J
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2021
     
    Yep. That's the law. Plenty of people have such opertunities though.

    There's also a lot of demand for the law to be altered, or more "tiers" of bike introduced as it is recognised as being restrictive to manufacturers who wish to develop 15+mph pedal bikes. It's not unreasonable to expect such demand is there, for bikes between the current 15.5mph and a full on 30mph moped, plenty of cyclists can cruise significantly faster unassisted. The law is there as it came from the EU and is apparently being considered updated there such is the requirement for an intermediate category of bike. If altered, will UK follow or create its own alternative, we will have to see but in the mean time, play by the rules.
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2021
     
    Posted By: Gareth JYep. That's the law. Plenty of people have such opertunities though.

    Im not sure many people have access to legitimately ride a derestricted ebike. Other than the odd farmer allowing motocrossers to ride Im not aware of anywhere in my locality. In my experience all the obviously derestricted ebikes Ive seen are being ridden illegally.
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2021
     
    Are there any cases of this law being enforced?
  6.  
    Unfortunately so
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51647068
    Cyclist charged with causing the death while unlicensed/ uninsured of the pedestrian he hit at 30mph (e-bike at that speed is treated as a motorbike so needs license/insurance) but later acquitted iirc.

    Look at the Cycle to Work scheme if you are buying new
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeApr 28th 2021
     
    Isn't that more cyclist charged with causing death rather than cyclist charged with riding illegal ebike 🤔🙄 I doubt the cyclist would have been stopped and checked had he not been involved in a fatal accident nor that someone riding a normal bike would not have been charged in the same situation.
   
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