Home  5  Books  5  GBEzine  5  News  5  HelpDesk  5  Register  5  GreenBuilding.co.uk
Not signed in (Sign In)

Categories



Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

Buy individually or both books together. Delivery is free!


powered by Surfing Waves




Vanilla 1.0.3 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome to new Forum Visitors
Join the forum now and benefit from discussions with thousands of other green building fans and discounts on Green Building Press publications: Apply now.




    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2021
     
    I always congratulate myself on my great ideas until it all goes horribly wrong and I have to live in the shed until forgiven.

    I'm in the middle of double mobile home repair (rotten floor, chipboard soup) and am nearly at decorating stage. Outside, things are pretty bad. 15 years ago, slapped Wickes EPS onto aluminium skin outside with grip fill or no more nails. Worked a treat, kept us warm for 5 years. Now we have friends who stay in same and I'm much more aware of fire risk and thus much more uncomfortable about it, despite alarms and safety precautions in place.

    The sparrows have dug their way in to the polystyrene to keep themselves warm and to build nests, some sheets have blown off and it's all pretty cr*p. So, I'm thinking let's re-do it, but I know I should really re-use the EPS, not take it to landfill and then buy more or similar.

    Then there's the over cladding to consider. Too heavy to be supported by mobile structure, so need frame from ground for support, more materials, more consumed.

    If only there was lightweight aluminium cladding to be had. Nothing about, it seems to me. Then the lightbulb moment. Aluminium foil glued over the polystyrene. Keeps moisture out, stops naked flame from igniting polystyrene. Stuck a bit of kitchen foil on with spray glue I had. Not bad, smoothed it down, it shows the texture of the EPS

    Then the 2nd lightbulb switched on. Maybe I could replicate a cladding finish. I cut a groove across a sheet with panel saw, whacked the foil on and rubbed it into groove. Nice!

    Me thinking, a lick of brown paint and away we go!

    Her outdoors not impressed, but I've stood my ground and ordered 3 metres of, would you believe it, 0.45 mm x 1 metre wide, fibreglass backed foil.

    I'm going to try different glues and finishes and have a play around with it. I know it's still going to burn in a proper fire, but I think this reduces Johnny and the box of matches fire risk quite a bit. Also should look smart, but I wonder which paint might work. Foresee a billion paint particles washed into the environment in a few years. Perhaps a rubberised paint.

    Who knows.

    What do you think?
    • CommentAuthorSimonD
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2021
     
    This sounds like the kind of thing I would do.

    Personally, I'd be inclinded to go mock Airstream route. Use Aluminium sheets, perhaps 0.9mm which you can get up to 2500 x 1250mm sheets, and then bond to the eps, and rivet/seal/bond the joints together around the caravan.

    I'd then leave the aluminium unfinished to weather naturally.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2021
     
    Gd that you worked out that insulation has to go outside the alu skin - universally people insulate (e.g. narrowboats) internally then have to super-heat forever to keep the condensation at bay.
    I thought to use foil faced Cellotex with foil-taped joints, until I was shown how poorly bonded the foil is.
    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2021
     
    Mock airstream was first thought, but double mobile a bit too unlike an American dream! Think trailer trash and you're getting closer.

    Yeah, gluing foil down and the longevity of the fix is a likely downfall, but won't know unless I give it a go.
  1.  
    Mobile homes get past some development planning restrictions and building regs/stds because they are classified as vehicles rather than houses. How much are folks able to modify the 'vehicle' before it is no longer a vehicle and needs planning and building consent?

    Edit to clarify: it's obviously good to add insulation, but presumably one can't build a timber frame leaf over the walls and roof of a mobile home and so create a holiday house without planning or building control?
    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2021
     
    Mine's still mobile with wheels, but axle up on blocks. I'm resisting temptation of building up from ground with foundation and blockwork to form a skirt. Peeps leave a one inch gap so they can still claim mobility.

    I took EPS down to ground and enclosed, boy did the rats love that. I'm going back to what it was originally was, open all round, plenty of ventilation underneath.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2021
     
    Posted By: fostertomuniversally people insulate (e.g. narrowboats) internally

    If you think about it, it's really difficult to insulate a boat externally; especially one where bashing into stone walls is an everday part of life.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2021
     
    Posted By: dicksterI took EPS down to ground and enclosed, boy did the rats love that. I'm going back to what it was originally was, open all round, plenty of ventilation underneath.

    When I assembled the shed in our garden I stood it on square posts laid flat so that it has ventilation underneath. I made sure the gap is big enough that cats can get under as well as rats, and we haven't had any problems.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2021
     
    Posted By: djhIf you think about it, it's really difficult to insulate a boat externally
    So it's a tech/design problem - tougher difficulties have been resolved. The point is, people don't even realise condensation is going to be a problem, or that there are ways to design it out.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2021
     
    Posted By: fostertomThe point is, people don't even realise condensation is going to be a problem, or that there are ways to design it out.
    Are there any ways other than making sure the insulation is perfectly vapour tight?
    • CommentAuthorSimonD
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2021
     
    Posted By: fostertomThe point is, people don't even realise condensation is going to be a problem, or that there are ways to design it out.


    Too true!

    Posted By: Ed DaviesAre there any ways other than making sure the insulation is perfectly vapour tight?


    I'd be interested to know this. My understanding at present is that when it comes to a buildup with metals, it's either to provide a sufficient ventilation gap/condensade drain behind the metal or metal & substrate or utilise a self-sealing vapour barrier on the warm side of the insulation.

    Any other options?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 23rd 2021
     
    Yes those are the two alternatives revor. Absolutely permanently perfect internal VCL is a non-starter (anything less is a one-way pump for accumulating moisture in with no way out).

    Copious ventilation outboard, behind the skin, with good breatheability is the other. In buildings there's a chance to do that properly, with very low air resistance passively driven by stack effect, wide cavity like 100mm, large inlets like 50mm continuous, top and bottom.

    In a boat or caravan, no such space can be spared. I just found myself thinking of powered ventilation outboard, intermittently AI/sensors activated, which could be done with little space, but noisy and energy-hungry while operating.
  2.  
    Insulate your narrowboat externally all over. Provide a projecting bumper strip round the outside to protect the insulation where it might come into contact with lock gates etc (a fender or a rubbing strake, like the bumper on a dodgem car). Make the rubbing strake out of a foamy rubbery material that will absorb impacts and also not cold-bridge the insulation.

    If building from new, use a layer of foam, sandwiched between two thin fibreglass or carbon-fibre-epoxy skins. The foam acts like the web of an I beam to hold the structural skins apart, and make the hull very stiff and lightweight and unsinkable. Also like the sides of a fridge-freezer.
    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeApr 26th 2021
     
    Just a note.I found alum foil being used to wrap EPS on a you tube "how we make giant sculptures". Self adhesive 200mm wide. It is used to separate the then applied glass fibre from the foam.
    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeApr 27th 2021
     
    .45mm fibreglass backed foil arrived. I sanded a groove in a bit of EPS and spray glued it on. It follows a gentle edged groove quite nicely. External foil surface has a small diagonal mesh appearance. It's pretty tough stuff, forms a good hard outer surface to sheet. A dab of emulsion covered well (had some on a brush). Now will experiment with multiple vertical grooves to give appearance of cladding....
    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2021
     
    Well, a sharp knife, 2 parallel cuts and an oscillating tool blade snipped and bent to act as a gouge/chisel. Nice.

    Copydexed both polystyrene and glassfibre surfaces, wait 'til dry. Cling film to stop it sticking in wrong place, sticks down really well. A drop of house paint.
      reesized1.jpg
    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2021
     
    another pic
      resized1.jpg
    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTime2 days ago
     
    So, more playtime. I've become uncomfortable with dressing up the caravan as a wooden shed, just didn't seem right, somehow.

    Thought instead of maybe a mock 1970's holiday caravan site type look, complete with naff colour scheme. Lays much easier on the brain.

    Here's first attempt on a bit of a bit of rough polystyrene. I think it's going to be OK.
      caravan 2 and a half.jpg
    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTime2 days ago
     
    That was her outdoors approving, I meant to post this pic.
      caravan 1 and a half.jpg
Add your comments

    Username Password
  • Format comments as
 
   
The Ecobuilding Buzz
Site Map    |   Home    |   View Cart    |   Pressroom   |   Business   |   Links   
Logout    

© Green Building Press