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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2021
     
    This Wiltshire giant battery came on stream this week

    https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/projects/minety-battery-storage-project/

    Largest in Europe. Practically all Chinese funded built and run. When at end of life who will recycle it it has no cobalt replaced with iron so no value to anyone recycling batteries. Another door in the foot of taking over the world. We should be really worried on their foothold in this county with Nissan collaborating with Envision (Chinese) on building the EV plant in Sunderland Envision again in France collaborating with Renault to build EV's we are not even out of the starting blocks making batteries. From what I can make out UK subbing the Nissan project to tune of £100 million + why are we spending tax payer money to help make China wealthier, will we get a return on the grant? and why sub a project that Nissan would have done anyway?

    Read other day LG Chem moving to separate themselves from China over issues with quality from their LG plant in China and Chinese foothold on the supply of materials. Possibly linked with LG batteries catching fire in Hyundai Kona EV's. made in the Chinese factory

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56156801

    Had some garlic delivered with our weekly order this week believe it or not came from China.

    Had problems with an Italian made external LED sensor light took it apart the innards were all Chinese only the case was made in Italy. So substantially made in China. Not on.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2021
     
    Posted By: revorwhy are we spending tax payer money to help make China wealthier, will we get a return on the grant? and why sub a project that Nissan would have done anyway?

    Why ask us? I'm sure there are better places on the intertubes to answer such questions.
  1.  
    Posted By: djh
    Posted By: revorwhy are we spending tax payer money to help make China wealthier, will we get a return on the grant? and why sub a project that Nissan would have done anyway?

    Why ask us? I'm sure there are better places on the intertubes to answer such questions.

    IMO the government had no choice but to support this project with tax payers money to protect the rhetoric of Brexit. Think of the backlash if (without the grants) various firms quit the UK in favour of plants in Europe.

    Posted By: revorHad some garlic delivered with our weekly order this week believe it or not came from China.

    I avoid Chinese garlic as I find it lacking in flavour and substance compared with locally produced garlic.
    • CommentAuthorMike1
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2021
     
    Posted By: revorFrom what I can make out UK subbing the Nissan project to tune of £100 million + why are we spending tax payer money to help make China wealthier, will we get a return on the grant? and why sub a project that Nissan would have done anyway?
    Part of the deal to keep then in the UK, presumably.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2021
     
    King Canute is grossly misrepresented by history. He didn't think he could stop the waves - he was just domonstrating to his fawning courtiers that he had no such powers.
    Little England, or even MAGA America, can't stop a giant wave like China - it's far too late for that, and anyway effective policies to keep China in her place would have been catastrophic, worldwide. Through most of written history, China has been the greatest world power, albeit not in European colonising style. 300yrs of European dominance is just a little blip. Like it or not, China is reasserting her geopolitically-inevitable position, especially as disintegrating America has squandered the unique impregnable-island-continent geopolitical advantage that arose through her unification.
    So it's no good trying to gang up on China or boycot her multiple kinds of influence. Instead 'the rest of the world' begins a messy era of creative accommodation with the tiger - the one certainty being that putting China back in her place is a non-starter. 'China Invades' won't cut it.
    • CommentAuthorSimonD
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2021
     
    Posted By: fostertomKing Canute is grossly misrepresented by history. He didn't think he could stop the waves - he was just domonstrating to his fawning courtiers that he had no such powers.
    Little England, or even MAGA America, can't stop a giant wave like China - it's far too late for that, and anyway effective policies to keep China in her place would have been catastrophic, worldwide. Through most of written history, China has been the greatest world power, albeit not in European colonising style. 300yrs of European dominance is just a little blip. Like it or not, China is reasserting her geopolitically-inevitable position, especially as disintegrating America has squandered the unique impregnable-island-continent geopolitical advantage that arose through her unification.
    So it's no good trying to gang up on China or boycot her multiple kinds of influence. Instead 'the rest of the world' begins a messy era of creative accommodation with the tiger - the one certainty being that putting China back in her place is a non-starter. 'China Invades' won't cut it.


    There is just so much in that comment, particularly relating to the history of China and the Western view of the world - starkly different to classical Chinese thought upon which even modern Chinese culture and society is built.

    In my view, 'the west' has sought to take advantage of China, by exporting production to save money and increase margins by exploiting low wages, poor working conditions, and poor environmental standards. Many greedy companies thought they could outsource the stuff they didn't like and was locally unprofitable while retaining what they saw as the valuable intellectual property locally. Dyson I recall was an example of this, actually talking about this busines model in the early 00's.

    China hasn't invaded, it has accepted and made exceptional use of an invitation by mostly western countries and this has taken us where it has taken us.

    Yes, China has become more aggressive in its terratorial stance as well as some political areas but I wonder whether that's more to do with current leadership. Goodness knows we know from our current government how this can affect a nation's standing in relation to the rest of the world!
  2.  
    I agree that this stuff is off topic for GBF, but couldn't help laughing at the irony in the OP about the need for protectionism, to shield "Nissan LG Hyundai Renault Italy" from an "invasion". I remember my grandad ranting about all those in the 1980s as being economic "invaders" themselves, and being upset about my Sony Walkman, and about Nissan being allowed a foothold to build cars in the UK. That was despite him having lived through protectionism in the 1920s and its consequences in the 1930s/40s/50s.

    Eg for comparison:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1982/05/14/economic-invasion-by-japan-revives-worry-about-racism/d2b921df-556b-4652-a20b-9f3f6761e339/

    Incidentally, trading is inherently a two-way thing. China is now the UK's 6th largest export market, or our 3rd largest if you treat the EU markets as a bloc. Japan is no longer in the top ten.

    More on topic: it's encouraging to see rapid growth in battery manufacturing around the world, hopefully prices will fall quickly, like with the solar boom. There's another battery factory planned in Coventry, adjacent to a major Indian car company. Despite the efforts of the German taxpayers, most solar panels are not manufactured in Europe, but the financial services to pay for them do come from here.
    • CommentAuthorCliff Pope
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2021
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: WillInAberdeen</cite>

    Incidentally, trading is inherently a two-way thing. China is now the UK's 6th largest export market, or our 3rd largest if you treat the EU markets as a bloc. Japan is no longer in the top ten.

    </blockquote>

    Exactly. China can't be just giving us all this stuff, we obviously are selling a roughly equal quantity to them.
    So presumably there are equal worries in China about markets being flooded with western goods?
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2021
     
    We now buy more from China than any other trading partner which is twice what they buy from us. We sell machinery cars and high quality goods, we get from them based on my personal experience time and time again goods not really fit for purpose. You only need to look at the number of recalls on electrical goods to see that. I have lost count on the number of LED floods I have fail not forgetting the major scandal of a few years ago of millions of metres of electrical cable where the copper in the cable was not of the correct gauge. A lot was recalled but no one knows where it now resides in installations all over the country. PV magazine had an article the other day that Australia is sitting on a residential fire timebomb as a combination of poor controls and poorly made ageing Chinese DC switchgear are catching fire on PV installations,
    That is putting aside the human rights violations which is a greater issue, not forgetting we would not have the pandemic we are in if China had not stamped on Dr Li Wenliang who flagged up the problem and China allowing a flood of people to leave Wuhan for the Chinese new year taking the disease with them. Shutting down the news cause havoc to the world causing millions to be affected and hundreds of thousands of deaths with more to come particularly from the poorest countries ill equipped able to deal with it. China needs to be held to account.
    All I want is for good to be clearly labelled so I can make an informed choice of where I spend my money and make my protest in a practical manner.
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2021
     
    Revor,

    I do agree wholeheartedly with the human rights situation in China and they should be made aware that such actions will not be tolerated.


    On the rest of your post, it is easy to blame other countries such as China for the failing you see around you. Poor quality LED floods are allowed on sale here in the UK because of poor control of quality standards as is the same with electrical cable. As for the spread of Covid-19. I am sure the spread would have been slowed initially at least, if the Chinese authorities had been more open and/or realised the gravity of the situation earlier. However, the current situation in the UK is entirely down the the authorities here and their actions.

    If you do not want substandard goods from China then don't buy them :cool:
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2021
     
    As mentioned I don't want to buy them but they are not labelled most of the time or they masquerade under UK names. Only found out the other day that MK sentry units are made in China. Got 4 of them in my property. No marking on the goods to say they are made there. The cable came in as counterfeit I understand, I buy UK made under BASEC standard so did not get caught out. I mentioned to a neighbour the other month I was going to bite the bullet and buy German made LED solar lights, He told me not to bother he had just ditched one but opened it up and found innards were made in China and that is what had failed. I wrote to the company concerned asking if indeed this was the case they did not reply When I was doing my build I bought a German made rotating laser had problems with batteries not charging. Cut a long story short they admitted that it was assembled in Germany but the parts that had failed were made in China, they stated that all production had now been brought back in house. So yes am blaming Chinese for poor quality because that is my experience I could write a book on all the stuff that has failed silly things that you could not believe your eyes they got wrong, and I keep meeting people who share similar experiences so I am not alone. Eventually they may get it right like Japan did. The one thing that is good about China (although would not wish to live there) is that being an authoritarian country when it decides to do something like build a new airport or other big infrastructure roads bridges railways etc it just does it whilst here we procrastinate for years. You only need to look at Fully Charged You Tube channel to see how far ahead they are. Whole cities running on electric buses and electric taxis. Need to charge your EV "don't worry sir" we will swop it over for you in a few minutes and charge you for the difference between what left in your battery and the replacement.

    Mind you I believe that Covid is a an issue that will eventually be solved (with the many mistakes like the lifting of restrictions now being made) unlike climate change, unless someone can come up with a way of removing the C02 currently in the atmosphere. Not sure we are going to succeed before it gets to late and we are in a runaway situation of no return. That is a super crisis.
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2021
     
    Revor,

    I do not understand why you are blaming the Chinese. If there was no demand for cheap, throw away goods then they would not have a market. I don't blame the brewery for my hang over and I don't blame the Chinese if I buy a product which they have made parts for which fails. If it says 'made in Germany' and it turns out it is not, then I just don't buy from that company again and let them know why via facebook.

    As for climate change, we will fail to combat it. Even after the dreadful events in Europe in the last few days nothing will change. German companies cheat on emissions tests and are fined only for it to be waived. Germany shuts down it's major source of carbon neutral power generation and replaces it coal burning power stations and nothing is said whilst the EU, US, UK are all pointing the finger at others for the same thing. I am afraid the next quarters bottom line and the 'insane' idea that an economy must grow perpetually is more important.:cry:
  3.  
    Posted By: Cliff PopeExactly. China can't be just giving us all this stuff, we obviously are selling a roughly equal quantity to them.
    So presumably there are equal worries in China about markets being flooded with western goods?


    Not according to my Chinese colleagues....

    IIUC it works like roughly like this:

    1) US sells soybeans to China
    2) China sells manufactured goods to UK
    3) UK sells management services to US
    4) Overall the trade roughly balances out.

    Everyone plays to their respective strengths, and gets steadily wealthier as a result, so everyone is mostly happy and can afford soya and solar panels and pensions which were previously out of reach.

    However there are still imbalances, which are associated with China effectively lending money to the US and UK governments through our money-printing process, who can then pay for public services without raising our taxes. The Chinese economy is growing fast enough for this to work.

    Eventually China will become rich enough to behave like the UK and US and then we will all have to buy our manufactured goods from somewhere else, as has happened with Japan and Italy before them.

    (simplified down to my level, many more moving parts are involved. #NotAnEconomist)

    One risk is the spiral grows unsustainably fast for the environment. However the UK economy has managed to grow substantially since 1990 whilst halving our GHG emissions, so Im not sure about the old argument that "environment protection will conflict with growth/jobs/wealth." But who knows.

    Another risk is that any one of the countries blocks up the circuit, perhaps because of nationalism or racism or ignorance. Then the spiral unwinds (recession) and everyone gets poorer and less happy, whilst blaming the others for their discontent (see also: 1930s). My Chinese colleagues are experiencing increasing hostility here, even before Covid.
    • CommentAuthorbhommels
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2021
     
    Posted By: WillInAberdeen
    One risk is the spiral grows unsustainably fast for the environment. However the UK economy has managed to grow substantially since 1990 whilst halving our GHG emissions, so Im not sure about the old argument that "environment protection will conflict with growth/jobs/wealth." But who knows.

    I don't want to dampen your optimism as I do think that the path towards net zero is good for jobs, possibly wealth, but the UK is, and has been for a while, one of the larger importers of emissions. Although the UK is not responsible for how other countries produce their goods it imports, It would only be fair to take this into account as consumers can only vote with their wallets.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2021 edited
     
    revor, now you're emphasising poor quality, lack of labelling and traceability etc - all valid, as is that we demand such cheap stuff, not just from China but from all over.

    But the thread is called 'China invades' which shows the true fear - of political domination by an older, deeper rooted 'alien' culture. Otherwise, why not call it 'China, Indonesia, Bangladesh etc invade'?
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