Hi guys I was wondering if any one knows any companies that will fit triple glazing in to existing sash windows (in London).

I've heard that it's possible but I know that this would make the Sashes rather large and bulky and therefore not suitable for all houses? What do people suggest?

And the air leak around the frames would out weigh any benefit of the 3rd pain.
Double glazing can be done but there are so many compromises, looks and/or u value that it seldom works or looks right.
You will also need to draft proof all of the gaps.

New windows or frames can be well insulated and draft proofed and look good, if you have deep pockets.

Why not go for shutters and curtains.

.

how about fitting secondary glazing - either single or DG but removable for the summer when you will want to open the windows the most.

Would be very interested in links to the "neat secondary systems". Most properties I deal with for extensions and attic conversions have sliding sash windows and I get the question all the time.
You are right, of course, draughtproofing is the best way forward.

So much for that thread...

blockquote>Posted By: majikyou can open the storm window easily from inside, just roll up (or down) the old sash window, then reach over the 6 inches or so and open up or down the aluminum sash

does that mean tha American storm windows are external, not inboard of the existing window?

I think I should mention we bought the house I refer to above 10 years ago, and the storm windows had been in place for a while by appearances.

Yes, the secondary windows were exterior units - and although they look absolutely fine from the outside, as interior windows they would have been more noticeable and affected the character/charm of the house. I expect you'd have to look at a quite different (more expensive) type of product for interior secondary windows, if aesthetics is a consideration (which it should be!! Before our neighbourhood became listed 'historic', friends went and replaced all the old wood sash windows of their magnificent 1900's Cape Cod with the same cheap-looking assembly-line vinyl double-glazed units, complete with faux pane dividers, that were being installed in all the newer houses in nearby cookie-cutter subdivisions. Sacrilege!)

There is a UK company that's actually called 'Storm Windows' I see from my google search. Their product looks expensive to me. So I do wonder, now, if in UK you might find that these types of windows are a 'niche market' product (e.g. for historic homes where budget is not the first consideration) and therefore not for the budget-minded.

If budget is a consideration and you're a competent DIYer (and this is aimed at everyone reading this) and you've got time on your hands, you could probably fairly easily make your own secondary windows. Or even, if you can find some at good price, buy similar-sized second-hand sash windows (bought from salvage/demolition yards or E-Bay or such?) and fit them in with a bit of skill and/or ingenuity.

The slimmest answer is probably to use spring balances, but that still makes for a certain chunkiness and appearance of clutter in the window reveal. Remember to consider egress functions too.

Most of the heat loss in sash windows is due to air gaps/ draughts. As an avid diyer I have routed various brushes/seals in my 100 year old sash windows. Fairly easy really. I bought all the products from Mighton sash products (google it) and it made a massive difference.

I didn't double glaze the units as everyday I look through the slightly rippled glass and I couldn't bare removing these beautiful pieces of victorian panes.

Now I am going to do as suggested above and put interior glass/plastic sheets on a simple frame that will clip on the internal window frames for 6 months of the year and go in the loft for the warmer months.

I had a flat in Hastings - listed building - we used internal glazing - it looked naff but helped with draughts as well. We found triple glazed windows are just too heavy for normal sashes, the frames are really beefy to take the weight.

I also had the external storm windows when I lived in America (Chesapeake bay), mine were some sort of polycarbonate that wouldn't break in a storm, in the summer we replaced them with mesh screens windows to keep the bugs out. I didn't have air-con. It was a bungalow so very easy to switch the windows twice a year. The porch just had these windows, no glass - so in the summer was mesh only and in the winter with the plastic storm windows a useful "air-lock" to the house. This was pretty typical at the time.

Tom, they make look small on the photo but are actually 1600 x 750mm each. It's a converted school with a kinda tardis thing going on! I'm a bit of an architectural purist so really worried about the change of appearance, for much of my working life I've been repairing old buildings. But as it isn't Listed we took the plunge & its really sharpened the look of the place in my opinion. Knowing how swiftly we need to move to a low-carbon economy my attitude towards changes to historic buildings has drastically altered. I hate stick-on glazing bars but recognise that they have their place.

That's sad - removing the sashes, junking them (into landfill?) and putting in blanks makes the place look soulless, and sorry you've removed the history. I wonder how long they have been there, and how long the new will last?

Ah well. One more spoiled house. It would have been simple to have draughtproofed and fitted secondary glazing.

A bit of reading

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server.php?search_word=windows&submit=Search&inTitles=on&terms=all&mainSearch=frontPage&titl=inTitles&show=nav.8384

Part of which is this



"Sash Windows
Sash windows are a precious part of our built heritage that makes the places we work and live special. Most people find them attractive.

But keeping them is not just a matter of taste. It also makes economic and ecological sense to keep them. Original timber windows were made of very high quality wood seldom found nowadays. It is a waste to replace them unnecessarily....

Besides, sash windows are a unique feature of your property. It gives it character and special appeal. 82% of estate agents we surveyed this year felt that original features such as sash windows tend to add financial value to properties and 78% believed they helped a property to sell more quickly.

The common objection to original sash windows is that they are not energy efficient and there are very limited ways of upgrading them. Now, for the first time an important piece of research has been commissioned by English Heritage at Glasgow Caledonian University that is going to show people just how easy and effective it is to bring a sash window up to modern standards. Watch this video to find out more, or download the research report.

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.21479 "

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.17396

http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/conWebDoc.3428

Etc.



Windows
8 Windows

"8.1 The importance of windows

Window openings and frames establish the character of a building's elevation. They should not generally be altered in their proportions or details, as they are conspicuous elements of the design. The depth to which window frames are recessed within a wall is a varying historical feature of importance and greatly affects the character of a building: this too should be respected.

The importance of conserving traditional fenestration and its detailing cannot be stressed enough, being particularly emphasised in PPG 15 Annex C (DNH and DoE, 1994). The Secretary of State has dismissed over 90 per cent of appeals against the refusal of Listed Building Consent for replacing traditional single-glazed sash windows with double-glazed PVCu windows because the replacements proposed would detrimentally affect the special character and appearance of the building. The fundamental objections, amongst many, are that double-glazed sealed units fatten the dimensions of glazing bars inappropriately, or result in extremely poor facsimiles stuck to the face of the glass.

Old glass is of interest and is becoming increasingly rare. It is of value not just for its age, but because it has more richness and sparkle than today's flat sheets with their uniform reflections. Where it survives, it must be retained and alternative means of thermal improvement considered.

Many historic windows, frames and glazing, have fallen victim to inappropriate replacements, but over the past decade, there has developed a greater appreciation of their value..."

Ev, you have no understanding of the specific case. We did not junk the windows, they make a very useful cold frame. We replaced the weather-side sash windows exactly to match the originals in about 1990. They lasted for 15 years but nowhere near as long as the originals on the protected side of the building (the one you see in the photo was an original). We sealed them up years ago after suffering rattling, draughts, condensation & an extremely cold house. Secondary glazing would have meant repairing & repainting, continual trouble with dirt, flies & condensation, visual clutter & lots of wasted time. Now we have the ultimate solution though I accept they may not be to your taste.

Even in my short time here I have noticed your arrogance & rudeness. This is not 'one more spoiled house' it is an old building usefully re-used & fit for the future.

In essence Ev, do you feel that the Conservation industry is in fact "setting out to creatively, inventively and sensitively seek new syntheses [in adapting LBs] that meet the new age better than ever before"? Or not?

I tend to sit on the fence with all the 'conservation' versus 'sustainability' arguements that seem to rage on here.
Mainly due to the fact that I love old buildings and architectural features. It's kind of a heart vs head thing.

Ecohome's windows seem pretty clear cut to me though...vastly improved performance, character of the building maintained and views improved. Everyone's a winner.