Trees do it nicely too

Sounds much easier to eat more kebabs for a few years and turn our moorland into woodland. Sheep farmers have always moaned there's no money in it so it won't cost much to comandere their land and cover their lost income.

Got a feeling the new land payment scheme may offer that as one of the many things land owners an get paid for??

Because it sounds like perpetual motion? But it's not - it's an energy-consuming process powered by by a local-freak opportunity to tap earth's core-reactor output at unusually useable delta-t.

Posted By: philedgeturn our moorland into woodland

Posted By: Peter_in_Hungary"rewilding" pastures into woodland

No one shd be assuming that that's what rewilding means. Rewilding starts with the belief (many say scientific fact) that maximum biodiversity and maximum density of life is the biggest and best route to restoring biosphere resilience and to processing the overload of toxics that we've created lately. And that those maxima establish themselves, at little cost financially or in scarce/expert human resources, by simply stopping interfering with land and sea and letting nature take its course - and it's been found that nature achieves that, when allowed, effortlessly and with astonishing speed.

However, 'stopping interfering' is hard to do - means taking down fences over enormous areas, re-seeding things like wolves and bison ... not going to happen, except in remote parts of central Europe, where it actually never quite stopped.

So after a short while of experience, rewilding has changed - no longer completely 'hands off', but expertly simulating same, as best poss. In that, it's been found, for Britain at least, that wild ponies esp Dartmoor ponies get close to simulating the beneficial effects of a range of free-ranging megafauna. Add highland cattle, great bison - even better. Largely shut out/cull sheep and deer, if wolves can't be deployed.

The effect, on pasture or moorland, is unlikely to mean full-forest. Current research shows that full-forest was never the predominant state, in Britain. With sheep and deer reduced to marginal, shrubby undergrowth quickly grows, succeeded by trees. Megafauna uproot and trample areas of same, leaving sky-view clearings where undergrowth starts again, followed by young trees again - the cycle continues - a mix of woodland and clearings, full cover and open sky - varied habitat where the widest range of plant and animal can find their niches.

And so can employment-intensive eco-tourism, it seems. Some farming small-holdings too. If better prosperity and more jobs were welcomed, compared to stubborn 'doesn't pay' entitlement, then job done, no need to trace blame to govt subsidies, or lack, of reluctant 'stewards'. But every small-c conservative instinct is deeply offended. There's the rub.

If only

Posted By: JontiThe problem is not that it is grazed but rather the amount of grazing. In the Scottish Highlands there are vast areas of land that have been left completely alone but due to the over population of deer fails to regenerate and woodland.

+1
The failure to (properly) manage the wild grazing animals population (primarily various types of deer) is IMO down to 2 reasons, first the desire for the hunting industry to have easy targets and secondly the lack of finances to manage the population properly in areas not subject to the hunting industry. (In Hungary the over population of deer and wild boar is as a result of the first reason - the hunting societies want easy targets - this causes much friction between hunters and agriculture)

Of course the reintroduction of the predators, wolf packs, bears, and lynx, once native to the UK would help solve this problem and create a balanced population of wild life but I suspect the Ramblers Association et al would object to packs of wolves etc. inhabiting places they wish to roam

But if you talk to the farmers in the effected areas in Switzerland then they will tell you the impact of predators on grazing stock can be significant. In addition, it have been cases of wolves stalking school children on the way school recorded.


The excess wild deer population in the Highlands could be talked in a cost effective manner and will need to be BEFORE any reintroduction of predators. If not, predators will have little impact for several generations before they too grow to an unsustainable population that sees a collapse of the deer population leaving a lot of hungry predators.

Of course a cull of the wild deer population would lead to a collapse of the venison price with knock on effects to the large estates hunting business. It will not be an easy problem to solve.