Home  5  Books  5  GBEzine  5  News  5  HelpDesk  5  Register  5  GreenBuilding.co.uk
Not signed in (Sign In)

Categories



Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

Buy individually or both books together. Delivery is free!


powered by Surfing Waves




Vanilla 1.0.3 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome to new Forum Visitors
Join the forum now and benefit from discussions with thousands of other green building fans and discounts on Green Building Press publications: Apply now.

The AECB accepts no responsibility or liability for any errors or omissions in the content of this site. Views given in posts are not necessarily the views of the AECB.



  1.  
    A number of years ago, I received some excellent advice when making my initial enquiries about refurbishing my house from members. Work has now started, and I’m doing a lot of it myself. I have a few queries I’m hoping some of you can comment on to help improve my refurbishment journey.

    We’re squaring off the house and replacing old single bricks extensions and had planned to use 215 mm blocks, with 200 mm of external insulation over the whole property. We are also currently having all the urea–formaldehyde wall insulation removed, as it had completely failed. This process has made us realise just how poor the house currently is for airtightness and insulation — the removal has allowed dust and insulation from the cavity to enter the house through every nook and cranny.

    We’ve struggled to source 215 mm blocks. Because of this, we are now considering replicating the existing construction: maintaining the existing 70 mm cavity, extending with a cavity concrete block wall inside and out, refilling the cavity, and then externally insulating the property. One of our main goals is to improve comfort inside the home, as we have no intention of moving.

    I was considering EPS beads for the cavity fill, but they seem difficult to source locally. The other options are PU foam or fibre. Has anyone got any up-to-date thoughts on these three options and which you would personally choose? PU foam sounds promising, assuming it’s installed correctly, as it should fully fill all of the cavities — though I assume the same could be said for the other products if they’re properly installed. I assume fibre is the cheapest and foam the most expensive.

    We have also decided to remove the old uninsulated concrete floor, lay 300 mm of EPS, add UFH pipes, and pour a single 100 mm concrete floor in one go as the finished surface. Any suggestions on UFH pipe suppliers or designers would be welcome.

    Finally, can anyone suggest a supplier for graphite EPS external wall insulation? How would you recommend fixing it? It seems common to use a mortar-based product, yet there also appear to be many foam-based products that could bond it to the wall before mechanical fixing such as CERESIT CT 84. Any thoughts on the best approach?

    I will be using brick slips to some areas of the front of the property, which will need to be attached to the EPS. Does anyone have advice on the best method to do this so that they remain secure over time?

    Please feel free to provide me with any other pointers, tips or advice they would like to share.

    John
    • CommentAuthorkebl2825
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2025 edited
     
    If you're anywhere near Birmingham, Ecclestons had the best EPS prices when I did a thorough price comparison for myself a couple years ago. https://ecclestons.com/
    Once including delivery a lot of the online merchants prices came closer.
  2.  
    I have used EWI Store on a number of occasions.

    For the cavity I would keep looking for a supplier of EPS bonded beads. Where do you live? I know a firm in Nantwich who will travel.

    For adhering EPS or any other EWI to walls I would use a render-type 'adhesive'. This could be cementitious or it could be lime. Baumitv have a certified system using EPS and lime.
  3.  
    I’m in Suffolk, near Norwich so a little way from both those locations, though thank you for the suggestions.

    I was hoping to to do the ewi fixing myself and then having a render company come in to silicon render up. Has anyone bonded brick slips to eps directly or do you think a backboard would be required first?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2025
     
    Posted By: englishjohnI’m in Suffolk, near Norwich
    I'm in Suffolk, near Stowmarket. Presumably you're near the Norfolk border?

    What's your problem with 215 mm blocks? There doesn't seem to be any problem when I do a quick search. Travis Perkins for one. Ditto graphite EPS seems widely available. We got all ours delivered from Kore in Ireland, but then we had a large quantity and lots of special stuff.
  4.  
    ''I’m in Suffolk, near Norwich so a little way from both those locations, though thank you for the suggestions.''

    I suspect that wherever you get your EWI stuff from you will have a pallet delivery (and it won't necessarily be coming from the merchant, but perhaps their supplier whose location you don't even know), so it becomes difficult to *know* that you are saving 'load miles'.

    I am 90+% certain that both of the brick-slip jobs I am aware of (aware as in having seen them at various stages in the process) are 'straight-onto-the-EPS'.
  5.  
    I’ve just checked with TP again, and they still say the only 215 × 215 × 440 block they have is the hollow 7.3, which isn’t what I’m after — and they’re quoting me silly money per block. Jewsons is where I’ve had the best discount so far through my friend’s account, but according to the local branch, they basically don’t have any blocks of that size available.

    I’m not sure if a whole-house wrap and floor would be considered a large delivery, but I might give Kore an email to see what they say.

    Going straight onto the EPS is my preferred option — no doubt cheaper as well. One BS company came back to me saying I’d need to use a cement fibre board first, though that seems excessive. Why bond one product only to then bond another onto it?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 14th 2025
     
    Well you didn't say exactly what you wanted (and still haven't!), nor why, so I don't think there's much chance of anybody suggesting any detailed links. Did you consider the likes of Porotherm blocks?
  6.  
    Posted By: Nick ParsonsI know a firm in Nantwich


    Hi Nick, is that a recommendation?
    We’re looking for a company to blow bonded graphite EPS beads into our timber frame and we’re only about 30-45 minutes away
  7.  
    Apologies if I haven’t expressed this quite as I intended — Though I am intended in to do a lot of the work myself I do have a builder as well. I spoke with my builder who I am using who is also a friend, and he wasn’t keen on using Porotherm, partly because his supplier doesn’t stock them and I guess he is stuck in his ways. I also suspect that, since this is only an extension, the relatively small quantities needed would be harder to source compared to standard off-the-shelf blocks from the local merchant. It’s a shame, as Porotherm looks like a great product, but it seems better suited to a full house build.

    Proposed build-up:

    Front & Rear Extensions
    100 mm Lignacite block (? 0.27)
    70 mm Grey EPS beads (if available) (? 0.032)
    100 mm Lignacite block (? 0.27)
    200 mm Grey EPS (? 0.032)
    Silicone render + brick slips

    Existing House
    100 mm block
    70 mm cavity refill with Grey EPS beads
    102 mm brick
    200 mm Grey EPS
    Silicone render

    EPS to be both mechanical attached as well as cementitious rather than CT 84 or equivalent, can any explain why this is preferred?

    In both new and existing areas, EPS will run down to the strip footings.
    For the new front & rear extensions, I’m considering using Marmox blocks at the base for a thermal break.
    New windows would be partially recessed between the EWI and the external cavity wall, with the outer frame wrapped in EPS.
    Existing uninsulated concrete floors will be removed and replaced with 300 mm EPS, then 100 mm concrete with underfloor heating pipes embedded at 100 centres. I need to get the UFH layout designed.

    The roof requires re-roofing. I haven’t given this a huge amount of thought yet, though suspect a warm roof design connecting to the EWI is best?

    Goals:

    We are working with a ‘limited’ budget and intended to complete all external works including, windows, doors and the replacement concrete ground floor first. The niceties like new bathrooms ect will come as and when.

    We specifically want to eliminate the existing mould, cold drafts, and hot/cold spots in winter, as well as improve damp control and indoor air quality using MVHR. Using the Change Plan tool, the calculated U-values are around 0.17 W/m²K for the proposed wall build-up, or 0.11 W/m²K if aerated concrete blocks such as Ytong or Celcon are used instead. That difference doesn’t seem huge, so I’m weighing whether the switch is worth it and cost. Our aim is to achieve a low-energy home that’s comfortable year-round, with low running costs.

    Moreover, I suppose I was simply looking to discuss what we’re doing and to get some reassurance that we’re on the right trajectory, especially as we’re not employing a specific Passivhaus or similar consultant.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2025
     
    Looking at https://lignacite.co.uk/products/lignacrete/lignacrete-standard-block/ it says: "Lignacrete Standard blocks can be used for all general-purpose walling applications. It is recommended that walls of 215mm thickness are constructed using 100mm blocks laid flat, or use 215mm hollow blocks." which perhaps explains the scarcity of other types of 215 x 215 blocks.

    Regarding EPS beads, there doesn't appear to be a shortage of firms willing to install them, and there seem to be good reasons to get a good insured installer rather than attempting the job yourself.
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2025
     
    First thought was lay block on flat, which seems too obvious, so you presumably have a reason not to do that?

    Your Uvalues for 200mm plus 70mm EPS (if that what you're referring to) seem a bit conservative. A quick calc gives me 0.12W/m2K, assuming graphite EPS, but 0.13 for regular EPS.

    If you did 200mm GEPS onto 215 blocks on flat, even regular dense conc blocks with lambda of 1.3W/mK, you'd get a Uvalue of 0.15W/m2K. Got to be easier than building 2 skins and filling a cavity. Block on flat is easy. Batten inside and plasterboard, giving a service void rather than chasing into blocks.
  8.  
    Hi @Englishjohn, you wrote: ''We’ve struggled to source 215 mm blocks.'' I believe others have simply used 'standard' 450 x 225 x 100 blocks 'on the flat'. Seems a good plan to me!
  9.  
    GreenPaddy and I must have been typing at the same time. I had not seen his comments when I posted.
  10.  
    Thank guys, that’s some good advice I will discuss with my builder, but if I’m laying them a single block flat will certainly be easier. I had 21degree come round to show me some window samples and they suggested i maybe able to achieve aced retrofit standard. I may look into this, might be nice to have plaque.

    Has anyone got a link to a suitable warm roof design that i could join onto the ewi?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2025
     
    Posted By: englishjohnaced retrofit standard
    Did you mean AECB Carbonlite or something else?
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2025
     
    remind me, if you would please, flat or pitched roof? Can you post a drawing on here, so we can get an idea? Even just a snap of the drawing, in a small file format.
  11.  
    Djh, yes it was the AECB CarbonLite Retrofit, potentially.

    Greendaddy, all new pitched roofs.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qIJTL1QYystEb9lr8NXnpkOMIMNcCc66/view?usp=drivesdk
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XLA72aERb0v-mWVDkXItQQQZRvQp-nJg/view?usp=drivesdk
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZVN9ESEgnBN_Nsv3bYET8HmBiVtSQSU9/view?usp=drivesdk

    I see the website First in Architecture, for example, has a large amount of detailing including Passivhaus, so I will give that a read.

    I’m going to use the standard Lincrete blocks, as Jewsons has loads of them, so they’re readily available and well priced—unless someone persuades me to use aircrete blocks, like the Celcon Standard aircrete. The Lincrete blocks appear to offer a good key for wet plaster and hopefully a good key for the external EWI adhesive.

    The neighbour to the north, where the garage is, is refusing to allow me access to his property to undertake work. That side was supposed to be rendered, so he will just have to look at unfinished blocks. This, though, has disrupted my continuous EWI in this location, so I will now construct a larger cavity wall and no EWI here.

    My question is about connecting the EWI to the cavity wall. I was thinking something like this:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UFhbrfGgje2mJ9v-T8r_lToNy_fYoj_h/view?usp=drivesdk
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2025
     
    It shows me the first link, but then says I have to sign in to see the others, so I can't? How about https://postimages.org/

    Building right up against a property line can create lots of problems. What will the foundation look like, for example, as well as gutters and roof.

    I don't see any problem connecting EWI to a cavity wall at a corner. Just extend the outer wythe to cover the edge of the EWI.
  12.  
    Try this:

    https://postimg.cc/gallery/hKGQCRx

    Foundations are all strip and have been improved agreed with BC. I’m now think to achiever a value close to the rest of the walls I could use something like Thermaclass Cavity Wall 21 140mm in this small section.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2025
     
    Thanks. I can see all the images now! I see I forgot the cavity closer :cry:

    What I meant about the foundations was that they're usually broader than the wall that's built on them. How will you do that if the wall is right on the boundary? Or what's the alternative?
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2025
     
    re. roof design.

    Maybe consider timber I joists for the roof? Full fill a 300mm joist with a 0.032 W/mK lambda glass wool, and get a Uvalue of 0.11W/m2K. This is my default for projects, as BRegs (at least here in Scotland) for roofs is 0.12W/m2K.
    There are manuf details for how to land on ridge beams, wall heads, etc (try googling "JJI technical manual")
    Cut the Joist vertically flush with the block wall outer face. Add timber rafter sprockets to carry the roof, facia soffit. EWI between those rafter sprockets, over the end of the I joists, to the underside of the sarking/tiles. That gives almost 100% continuous wrap, and it's a simple detail for the timber installers and the EWI installers.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2025 edited
     
    Greenpaddy, I think englishjohn was looking for a warm roof design. I think you're proposing a design with a cold attic and roof?

    PS englishjohn, on the foundations, you also want to avoid a thermal bridge through the foundations with a cavity wall.
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2025
     
    I noted the warm roof ref. which is what I was describing. Insulation in the rafter voids gives a warm roof. Maybe the term "Joists" for the I joists caused confusion. The I joist can be utilised as a floor joist, roof joist (flat), roof rafter, wall. In this case I was referring to rafters, hence my comment about "using I joists for the roof" and "landing on ridge beam and wall head". Drawings are much less confusing than words.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 26th 2025 edited
     
    Posted By: GreenPaddyDrawings are much less confusing than words.
    Agreed.
  13.  
    Using I joists sound a like a good idea I will speak to the roofing supplier and see what they can offer, I know the initial design was with metal webs. Though this was quite a time ago when I had initial conversations.

    I am planing to use Marmox Thermoblock to remove the thermal bridge at the floor. I am trying to decided if we should use it on both the internal and external walls, though this would be twice as expensive. Would using it only on the internal leaf be ‘enough’? I have done 4 drawing, two of the wall leafs and two with the doors. I’ve used other peoples drawings and copied pasted sections to make my own layout.

    https://postimg.cc/gallery/Z9nB8T8

    So after going round in circles it has been decided that we are going to carry on and match the existing cavity wall with the existing house and open up the end of the cavities making it a continuous cavity. This will also allow the cavities to be filled prior to the winter just in case we don’t get the ewi and render finished and matches up internally and externally for the wet plaster and the EWI.
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTime5 days ago edited
     
    a few quick thoughts..

    - shame you've rejected the block on flat, as I think it gives simpler detailing. The wall thickness is less than the existing ok, but that could have been matched in with internal framing, and a little more insulation (if needed), but providing a very valuable service void. Plus the perimeter floor insulation could then be much thicker, as the internal timber frame would span over it, giving solid floor for the floor finish.
    - since you're going with cavity, I prefer detail 4
    - leave out some/all of the inner leaf in detail 4 at the opening, and continue the floor out to the door
    - assume the VCL on the floor is a liquid membrane to retard moisture from the concrete during the drying out process to let you lay the floor finish sooner?
    - I would break the EWI at the DPC level, so not a contiguous layer from below ground, and set back the EWI by say 25mm (or more) for the layer below the DPC, giving a drip line on the upper wall surface. This also allows the lower EWI portion to take a smooth render finish, so that the splashing at ground level cleans off more easily, and doesn't build up in what might be a less smooth render finish to the rest of the wall.

    Just my thoughts, and what I've moved towards over the years.
  14.  
    Green paddy, thank you for your thoughts. Detail3/4 is my preference.
    since you're going with cavity, I prefer detail 4

    - leave out some/all of the inner leaf in detail 4 at the opening, and continue the floor out to the door

    Was unsure if that could be done, but i see no reason why now I have re-looked at it after your suggestion.

    - assume the VCL on the floor is a liquid membrane to retard moisture from the concrete during the drying out process to let you lay the floor finish sooner?

    That’s a good point, final floor finish will probably some time away, but I guess 100mm concrete will take some time to dry so that may be a better idea to use a liquid.

    - I would break the EWI at the DPC level, so not a contiguous layer from below ground, and set back the EWI by say 25mm (or more) for the layer below the DPC, giving a drip line on the upper wall surface. This also allows the lower EWI portion to take a smooth render finish, so that the splashing at ground level cleans off more easily, and doesn't build up in what might be a less smooth render finish to the rest of the wall.

    That’s is sound advice, will spec maybe 150mm ewi at that area under the ewi started trays providing that drip line.
  15.  
    concrete drying - they say 1 day per mm, so 3 months for you. There's no other reason to have a DPM at that position, other than drying out, as described above.
Add your comments

    Username Password
  • Format comments as
 
   
The Ecobuilding Buzz
Site Map    |   Home    |   View Cart    |   Pressroom   |   Business   |   Links   
Logout    

© Green Building Press