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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2025
     
    What's the latest experience on EWI cost, EPS with acrylic render, incl forming around windows, cills already in place? This would be glued (no mechanical fixings) to
    a) sound existing roughcast render
    b) new OSB3 wall sheathing
    c) new OSB3 over-rafter sheathing, unrendered.
    Done by main contractor already on site, no allowance for his site set-up, scaffolding (already in place), all drain, RW etc alterations accounted elsewhere.

    And ditto for blown-in Warmcel between studs and rafters (plasterboard under-lined).
    Done by visiting specialist, and AFAIK they apply a flat fee for a minimum m3 volume, thereafter per m3 - what is that minimum?
    Anyone found the problem I've had - refusal to supply unless a certificate of condensation-performance can be submitted, for the proposed construction?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2025 edited
     
    Posted By: fostertomAnyone found the problem I've had - refusal to supply unless a certificate of condensation-performance can be submitted, for the proposed construction?
    Hmm, according to google's infallible AI "While there isn't a specific "certificate of condensation-performance" as a standalone document, compliance with Part C of the Building Regulations, which addresses moisture and condensation, is achieved through various means, including following guidance in Approved Documents, using certified products, conducting risk assessments, and employing skilled professionals."

    So it sounds like a*se-covering, maybe ask them what they're expecting? Or show them your insurance and qualifications?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2025 edited
     
    Of course I'm talking about my favourite timber framed, Warmcel filled, EWI'd wall (and sloping-ceiling) roof construction, which my WUFI studies years ago showed functions better with no VCL, than with a VCL, even an 'intelligent' VCL - which is too tough a nut for insulation suppliers, and now the new breed of outsourced Building Regs plan checkers, to swallow.

    I have the WUFI 'proof' in the form of comparative graphs plotting moisture content round the seasons, at key points thro the wall sandwich, but suppliers and now BI's, it seems, don't feel safe, or haven't the time, to study same and draw conclusions.

    They want a 10-page document which 'looks like' what someone like Warm Associates or GBS might produce (tho neither are willing to do that for third parties), giving chapter and verse on all the legislation (like a BBA Certificate does), justifying the choice of WUFI default assumptions, the regional weather file etc input, and at the end ticking a tickbox. That's how they know it's a 'skilled professional', tho there's no such qualification for doing WUFI studies. Plus I'm not actually allowed to call myself 'Architect' and don't carry indemnity insurance, which no-one seems to care about anyway.

    Or else a supplier's BBA Certificate including drawing of the same wall buildup - which none do AFAIK.

    Except perhaps for Viking House of this forum https://viking-house.co.uk/timber-frame-house.html , which has diverged a bit from our one-time common method but still AFAICS has no VCL.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2025 edited
     
    .
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2025
     
    Last job with EWI was 12 months ago;
    - 110m2
    - 120mm Graph EPS
    - mech fixings into stone
    - coloured acrylic render, with window banding
    - £170m2 (inc VAT, scaffold, site mobilisation)

    Not sure if that's any use to you. It was double that for the rock wool bats, which can be required if there are adjacent fire rating issues, esp if you are onto a timber frame, as stone/noncombust substrate helps it meet some of the fire breakout regs.
    Didn't have an issue with the dewpoint calc, as I do my own, and submit for approval for the building warrant.

    Interesting you're practicing without Prof Indemnity. Hope someone doesn't decide to come after you, and take your house. Mine is £15 a month for £1M. Would they find a loophole not to pay out on a claim? Probably :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2025 edited
     
    Brilliant - thanks.

    Ex VAT that's £142/m2. Stripping out scaffolding @ say £20/m2, 'site mobilisation'(?) @ say £10/m2, mech fixings @ say £10/m2 (do those sound reasonable?), that comes to the proverbial £100/m2. Did the price include anything else such as eave modification, rainwater/drain alteration?

    Extraordinary that rockwool batts would double the whole cost, when the cost of the actual insulation boards makes up a tiny part of the total.

    Dewpoint calc - you mean by the Glaser method? Actually EWI onto stone wouldn't get much of a challenge.

    PI - assuming care and experience, I don't see much that I could be sued for, given that Engineers etc carry their own PI. Seems to me that only real negligence, carelessness, shortcutting, delegation to juniors etc could lead to such mistakes - with the major exception of interstitial condensation! And if not paid monthly forever, all protection - to me and to the client - vanishes. I tell em I don't carry PI and they'd find I own little. I happily live in an idyllic thatched cob farmstead, prob worth millions, which I and my earning partner can readily afford to rent and the landlord's agent maintains - so nothing to 'take' there!

    Any other data, anyone?
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2025
     
    I'd say your deducts look a bit high, maybe more like £120/m2 ex VAT.
    I did all the prep work (drains, leadwork, soffit mods, etc) so they were purely stater-brackets, GEPS supply and fix, basecoat/mesh/render, clean-up and removal of waste.

    You mentioned no mech fixings. I have a niggle in my mind that there is a BReg requirement for mech fixings and pull out tests, but I wouldn't swear to that, and don't have time right now to look for it :cry:

    I'm sure the dewpoint software I use isn't as good/accurate as WUFI, but it does the job in terms of ticking a box that I'm already pretty confident about.

    Your PI approach is very logical, though I'm a bit more risk averse, and worry that the costs of any battle to prove that it really wasn't my fault, might be high. Has never happened yet, and don't expect it to, but as society becomes more litigiuos, and everything that happens must have someone to "blame", I sleep a little easier, even if it's a false sense of security :smile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2025 edited
     
    Thanks.
    Was that 1- or 2-storey scaffolding?
    Mech fixings - I've searched and found no BRegs requirement, yet trade literature sometimes says things like 'Glued boards usually require fastening using dedicated mechanical fasteners (screws or nails) in addition to the adhesive' but 'Additional fixing of insulation boards with dowels is not necessary on smaller walls and not exposed to wind.' Other manufacturers say categorically not. Probably definitive documentation could be found, tied to a particular manufacturer - important as it makes quite a difference to the job, and costs. Several times, the Parex rep has inspected the extg wall finish and quoted for materials without mech fixings.
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2025
     
    Mostly 1 storey, one gable 2 storey.
    Cost correction, £170/m2 ex VAT
    Quick check re. board fixing, the substrate surface roughness was high, being stone, hence the need for mech fixings. The"system" docs and the struct engrs required the fixings, not BRegs. My bad. A smoother substrate (up to 10mm), would be fine with adhesive only (system manuf install instructions would state, as you mention)
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