Whether you believe in China building in a kill switch into your EV or solar panels or not I have been subjected to and inadvertent unplanned kill switch. My Italian Inverter stopped working on Monday morning at 8.30 am. It was lifeless. No error warnings preceding it going down It just stopped. The monitoring on the PC and smart phone froze at that point but the historical data was there. After doing some digging discovered that the inverter manufacturer is in the Italian form of administration i.e running down the company and the process started a few month ago. The software driving and monitoring the inverter was developed by a 3rd party who then hosted the network of installed inverters. It seems that the hosting company has pulled the plug, understandably as who is going to pay them. The opinion of my original supplier who broke ties with the Italian manufacturer about 2 to 3 years ago is that the inverter should work albeit without any form of monitoring. I have had over the time I have had the inverter, a few tweaks to my software, remotely from Italy so mine may not behave as told it should. Either way without the monitoring it looks like it will be useless. I have emailed the hosting company to see if they can confirm that they have stopped hosting and that it happened on Monday, then I know for certain if that is the cause and not a hardware problem. They have been lacking in a response so far. One solution off course would be for the hosting company to do a subscription service I guess there will be several thousand inverters out there. Whether they will remains to be seen.

Posted By: djhI'm curious though - what cloud-hosted software is there that's involved in the inverter actually operating? As opposed to monitoring; I can see that might well be cloud-based.

That is also puzzling me there should be some life somewhere in the inverter. 230V going in nothing responding, no fans, no display. People not responding to queries properly, tried to get a service manual a wiring diagram would help. I do not want to spend time chasing something hardware until I can confirm whether the host pulled the plug at 0930 AM Italy time. If I know it is dead I can do something about a replacement. The battery needs an inverter with particular communication protocols but manufactureres in Germany are ignoring emails, although since then have used Ai and found compatible ones. I know of a housing association that have the inverter in a lot of their properties, they would not divulge whether they have had an issue or not, citing I am not a tenant confidentiality data protection etc. Maybe get some responses today. If not will take a look inside the casing to see if there is anything obvious. It is a bit galling as the inverter is still under warranty.

Posted By: revorIt is a bit galling as the inverter is still under warranty.

According to google

In the UK, the retailer is primarily liable for faulty electronics under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, as your contract is with them, not the manufacturer; they must provide repair, replacement, or refund for goods not satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or as described, especially within the first six months.

So from this your complaint should be to the supplier - ask them to fix or replace it.

Any 'DIY' attempts to fix it could invalidate your warranty.

Good point PIH. Before I attempt any repair trying to get as much info as possible as to what has happened. But I have been told that the hosting of the software has stopped and I am seeking confirmation of that from other sources that it happened when the inverter went down. That would confirm it is a software issue. Without the monitoring software it is useless anyway. There is about 3 months on the warranty left. Everyone I have contacted is being very guarded certainly they are not saying anything. It could be a v big issue as the inverter was sold widely in Europe Delios were not that popular in the UK though.

Posted By: revorThere is about 3 months on the warranty left.

Sounds like time to read the small print of the warranty, and probably contact the provider and warn them of the likelihood of a forthcoming claim. Perhaps take some legal advice.

Did you buy the inverter from your 'original supplier'? How long is the warranty and who provides it?

You mention Delios. I see they still have a website that mentions liquidation, so apparently there is still somebody keeping some lights on.

It's mentioned at the bottom of https://www.delios-srl.it/en/home-eng/

"Delios is a subsidiary of Weco who make state of the art welding machines"

That's a remarkable coincidence because it seems there's another? Italian company called Weco that make/sell batteries that are often used with Delios inverters, apparently. Very confusing.

Posted By: revorI can see what will happen they will deny all responsible on the basis I was not a qualified person to install.

Read the warranty carefully. But even if it has a clause about a qualified person installing the kit all is not lost because your consumer rights are stronger than warranty clauses. That is a guarantee or warranty can't negate your rights by adding restrictive clauses. To duck out of their liability thy would have to show that your installation work (or any subsequent work) contributed to the failure. Whilst an exclusion clause will give you more work (assuming they choose to play this card) you will have to go the the trading standards office to make a complaint and ultimately perhaps the small claims court. How far you progress the claim depends on the amount of money you are prepared to pursue. BTW actual consequential losses can also be in the claim. e.g. if you are missing out on FIT payments or it is costing more in grid input energy due to the failure this would be allowable in the claim. Your time and anguish is not eligible.

My own experience of this issue is that I had a gearbox failure on a 3 year old car and I found out that lots of failures had occurred due to a design fault and gearboxes in cars owned by private individuals were replace free. (I suppose companies don't benefit from the same consumer rights). I put in a claim which was rejected because the car was not serviced in a dealership, they also claimed that as I was outside the UK they had no liability. Luckily I had paid for the car in the UK although it was delivered to me in Hungary. A couple of letters quoting the consumer rights law and threatening the small claims court and they rolled over and I got my new gearbox. (Which after 27 years is still good).

@revor

There are (used to be?) a lot of people interested in inverters over at the Camelot forum (successor to the former Navitron)

camelot-forum.co.uk

I used to skim it, but recently their admin has completely locked it down so it's hard to tell if it's still operating or not. But if it is and you can get in then it might be a good place to find someone who knows about your inverter

Just found this via Ai

Delios S.r.l. ceased its manufacturing operations and was declared bankrupt, leading to a situation where existing Delios inverter owners required ongoing support. Metide S.r.l. stepped in to fill this void, offering specialized technical assistance for these inverters [1] [3]. This arrangement is crucial for the continued operation of solar photovoltaic systems that utilize Delios inverters, as it ensures access to necessary expertise and components [4]. The services provided by Metide S.r.l. are essential for troubleshooting, performance optimization, and extending the lifespan of these legacy systems [5]. Without such support, owners of Delios inverters would face significant challenges in maintaining their installations [6].

I emailed Metide last week not had reply.

Betcha Metide is the new name for continuation of (choice bits of) Delios by another name, including extinguished liabilities. Someone's making money out of engineered collapse.

Posted By: philedgeHopefully good news on the Metide front but are you sure it's the lack of connectivity that's stopped the inverter?

No I don't. Could quite easily be a fuse inside or a trip and the inverter worked out of the box when new, without hosting software. Juice goes in so if a hardware problem the would be close I think to supply as everthing is dead no fans no display no communications and no alarms prior to failure. But I do know the inverter software could be altered remotely from Italy as they did it once to alter the battery charging settings. So it is feasible that software is involved which why I really need to know if anything happened at 0930 Italy time at Metide.

Posted By: djhDo Metide have a website? I did a quick search and it seems to be like Weco - there are multiple companies called Metide s.r.l. that do different things. I can't figure out which one you mean.

Yes very confusing. Here is what I summarise so far.

Metidesrl who are at Metide.com, are or were the hosts of Delios software monitoring

Medite Srl mentioned as taking over the care of Delios inverters are Metide.it.

The link to the mention of the service of Delios is https://www.metide.it/assistenza-delios-inverter/ but screen blank.

I tried just www.metide.it and get something about connecting your data via an app. Nothing about contacts or about us etc.

We also have Weco that is parent of Delios and another Weco that makes inverters and batteries and combos and not stated as being related.

@DJH FWIW, I'm a member of that forum so I could post your question if they refuse you for some bizarre reason.
They have let me in and have posted a question. I also searched the forum with the word Delios nothing!
Yes very confusing. Here is what I sumarise so far .

Metidesrl who are at Metide.com, are or were the hosts of Delios software monitoring

Medite Srl mentioned as taking over the care of Delios inverters are Metide.it.

The link to the mention of the service of Delios is https://www.metide.it/assistenza-delios-inverter/ but screen blank.

I tried just www.metide.it and get something about connecting your data via an app. Nothing about contacts or about us etc.

We also have Weco that is parent of Delios and another Weco that makes inverters and batteries and combos and not stated as being related.

Thank you @DJH FWIW, I'm a member of that forum so I could post your question if they refuse you for some bizarre reason.
They have let me in and I have posted a question. I alo searched the forum with the word Delios nothing.!

Posted By: revor
It is not authorised for the use it was put to, it is not proper armoured cable. Nor is it suitable for outdoor use its typical use is suppling power and data to electric motors on conveyors where there is a lot of moment. There is a link in my posting above so here it is again in case you missed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygcj-6gcJWU

The way I found out was I noticed it when an installer took me to see his work and I asked what sort of cable it was and he replied it was a very flexible cable designed for conduits. As I like to think I am fairly up to date with things like this I was puzzled why I did not know about it. I am on an electrical forum and described it there and a member sent me a link to the data sheet. From what I can make out it is only certificated for use determined by the manufacturer and considered to be of industrial use only. Think it probably falls outside of BS7671. It was only later I stumbled across the video. When I let the installer know he did not reply. He was a solar heating engineer that branched into PV so he may have been relying on an electrician to do the wiring I don't really know. At least hopefully he won't use it again.

Lapp are a quality cable manufacturer and if you look up the spec of Lapp SY cable they say the braid provides mechanical protection and it can be used outdoors if it has UV protection....running it in conduit as you witnessed would provide UV protection. I don't think SY cable is inherently dangerous if you're using quality cable. Obviously if you use cheap rubbish that's a different matter but that doesn't make the SY concept dangerous for use outdoors when run in conduit.

Lapps braid is made of galvanised steel, a finer version the same galvanised steel that SWA armouring is made of. I think the stranded copper conductors and insulation would be long gone under before the braid melted?? Maybe RS sell an SY cable with a non metallic braid??

I think any cable that hasn't been properly protected from overload is at risk of melt down long before the steel braid of an SY cable melts.

My limited understanding of the subject is that the lightweight steel braid is not substantial enough to be used as an earth/protective conductor to carry the current of a fault to earth. This could be because its resistance is too high, so it cannot generate sufficient pulse of current (10s or 100 of A) to trip the CB fast enough within fraction of second. Or, the fault current might melt the braid if the fault is sustained for a long time, lots of seconds (which by design it should not be).

It might carry enough current to trip a RCD/RCBO (30mA) but that is supposed to be additional protection not the first line of defence.

The resistance obvs depends on how long the cable is.

If there were an earth fault then the current might melt the braid somewhere, maybe at a connection point, and then it would not be obvious that the earth/CPC connection has been lost before the user resets the CB and carries on using the equipment.

For industrial equipment this might not matter if a separate earthing/bonding strap is in place, say to the frame of the building.Then the braid is only used for EM shielding. (Edit: or an extra copper core could be provided, for use as CPC)

I used to use that kind of equipment but not recently so could be completely off track here.