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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthorminisaurus
    • CommentTimeDec 25th 2025 edited
     
    We have an EAHP, the compressor can get the water up to about 36 degrees, then the 3-stage 3-phase electric element starts to help out. Electricity here (Sweden) now working out at 30p kWh I’m thinking I’ll switch our dishwasher & washing machine to hot water (will check their manuals first). I’ll even maybe fit particle filters in case of tank sludge escape.

    I can’t see any downsides to doing this?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeDec 25th 2025 edited
     
    .flv player? Can't find anything.
    • CommentAuthorminisaurus
    • CommentTimeDec 25th 2025
     
    Sorry - I used the Swedish abbreviation - EAHP is what I should have written :( I shall edit the post, thank you :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeDec 25th 2025 edited
     
    Is that 'external air'? In UK - ASHP - 'air source'.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeDec 25th 2025 edited
     
    I seem to remember this subject cropping up before.
    I think the machine has to be designed to take hot water as some machines have cold rinse or pre wash cycles, so not just a simple matter of swapping cold input for hot. I'm guessing you'd need both hot and cold inputs, with a machine controlled thermostatic valve on the hot input to allow progressive wash cycles.
  1.  
    Wot owlman said above +1.

    Apart from that modern machines use very little water and depending upon your pipe sizes and distance from the DHW source to the machine you could find that the machine has reached its water level before the pipe has heated up and can deliver hot water to the machine in sufficient quantity to make any difference. The machine then does its cycle pumps out and fills again,by which time the water in the pipe and the pipe has cooled down. IMO the probability of marginal benefit is high. If you have a tap close to the relevant machines run the hot tap and see how many litres of water flow before usable hot water emerges and then compare this to the amount of water per machine fill to level.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeDec 25th 2025 edited
     
    Thought for Xmas evening, dressing for Dinnah - we've pretty much given up using the hot tap - running to get it hot is offensive. Except for a bath of course - but we generally use a hi-kW electric shower, which has the advantage of delivering a mains-cold shower when reqd, instead of a mere coldish mixed flow.
    • CommentAuthorminisaurus
    • CommentTimeDec 25th 2025
     
    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryWot owlman said above +1.

    Apart from that modern machines use very little water and depending upon your pipe sizes and distance from the DHW source to the machine you could find that the machine has reached its water level before the pipe has heated up and can deliver hot water to the machine in sufficient quantity to make any difference. The machine then does its cycle pumps out and fills again,by which time the water in the pipe and the pipe has cooled down. IMO the probability of marginal benefit is high. If you have a tap close to the relevant machines run the hot tap and see how many litres of water flow before usable hot water emerges and then compare this to the amount of water per machine fill to level.


    That’s a really good point; I think your suggestion may be the reality; that the water isn’t warm by the time its filled the machine; I shall test as you suggest :)
  2.  
    In North America, where they do connect to the hot, the advice is to run the tap hot first before you switch them on.
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeDec 27th 2025
     
    Posted By: passivhausfanIn North America, where they do connect to the hot, the advice is to run the tap hot first before you switch them on.


    Somehow in the land of extravagance I am not surprised. Many years ago I saw a documentary about water. Therein contained a piece on the amount of water taken out of the Colorado and the amount of water lost out of Arizona swimming pools in its hot climate. I forget the numbers. There was a comparison of the American extravagance to that of those in much of underdeveloped world, it changed my approach to the use of water and how much energy I use to heat it.
    • CommentAuthorGareth J
    • CommentTimeDec 31st 2025
     
    A lot of dishwashers have a water reservoir in the machine that's designed to take cool water. It helps dehumidify the machine and drain away the steam at the end. That said, I do have the hw connected. It's a machine that's happy with up to 60C and has a setting to tell it's software. I doubt I'm saving anything significant. Maybe, on balance it even costs more.
    • CommentAuthordathi
    • CommentTimeDec 31st 2025
     
    i have solar thermal so a lot of hot water in summer i add the hot water through the front tray of washing machine at the beginning of the cycle i use couple of 2 litre plastic milk bottles as i have a sink next to washing machine
  3.  
    Posted By: dathii have solar thermal so a lot of hot water in summer i add the hot water through the front tray of washing machine at the beginning of the cycle i use couple of 2 litre plastic milk bottles as i have a sink next to washing machine

    I presume by ' at the beginning of the cycle ' you mean after the starting pump out phase you open the door and pour in the hot water then press start to continue the program.

    As a matter of interest how much water is drawn before hot water arrives at the tap?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeDec 31st 2025 edited
     
    I assumed dathi meant via the pull out detergent dispenser tray. Probably the simplest and most energy efficient of all, provided you don't have to run off loads of water to get the hot stuff.
    • CommentAuthordathi
    • CommentTimeDec 31st 2025
     
    yes meant the detergent drawer i have a two litre draw on the sink tap before water gets hot
    • CommentAuthorbhommels
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2026
     
    When installing a new kitchen some 7 years ago I decided to plumb in the dishwasher with the hot water to benefit from solar hot water, like the OP.
    Reading through the manual of our Bosch dishwasher, it is specified to take in water at any temperature between 5 and 50 C (going against what the sales people tried to tell us)
    The dishwasher measures the temperature of the incoming water and then decides how much post heating is needed, contrary to older machines which would heat for a set amount of time.
    I measured the consumption: a cold feed ECO cycle takes 1.5 kWh, a hot feed ECO cycle less than 0.5 kWh. For an automatic cycle, the consumption is higher and the savings bigger, depending on the state and quantity of the dishes.
    Since modern machines fill up their internal reservoir and recycle the water in there for the wash, and then again the rinse cycles to be more economic, pipe lag is less of an issue.
    Hope this helps.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2026 edited
     
    Never mind first principles - the angel's in the details!
  4.  
    Also worth using the 'delay start' button on ours - electric is much cheaper outside peak times and usually greener too.
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