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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJan 6th 2026
     
    Ply or other boxes for mounting windows outboard in the EWI zone - what's the current thinking?
    Thickness - 15, 12, or will 10 ply be adequate?
    Material - WBP ply? - any concerns about poss long-term intersitial condensation, positioned as they are well outboard in the insulation/sandwich? Is fibre-cement or other mineral board used instead? I guess interstitial condensation is no more likely than on/in the the window frame itself, but with less drying potential?
    Assuming air-sealing to the wall, and to the window frame, are do-able, what about air-sealing the four corner-edges of the box?
  1.  
    Last time I put windows in the insulation layer I used right angle metal brackets to hold the window to the wall then EPS up to window. EPS sealed to the window edges then 20mm EPS over the window frame face. No box used.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJan 6th 2026 edited
     
    Thanks PiH. I don't usually favour the boxes, but in the current situation, on balance ...
    I previously used metal brackets, but after calcing their extreme conductivity, in the in-to-out direction, even at 25mm wide x 1.5mm thk @ 600 centres, some kind of timber 'picture frame' seems far better, and provides a continuous surface to air-seal to. Even chunkier 'picture frame' of e.g. 75x38 on-edge screwed/sealed to masonry external wall face, if it's well buried within the insulation.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 6th 2026 edited
     
    Posted By: fostertomAssuming air-sealing to the wall, and to the window frame, are do-able, what about air-sealing the four corner-edges of the box?
    Can you not arrange that the ply box does not form part of your air barrier? Mine is the interior plaster over the box, for example (with added mesh and fibres in the plaster as necessary). But if the box was part of the air barrier then I'd put airtightness tape along the corner joins.
  2.  
    Posted By: fostertomwhat about air-sealing the four corner-edges of the box?


    I've linked to this resource before, but there's a method called 'rabbit ears' for taping into corners. This is a US site but the principle still applies:

    https://475.supply/blogs/design-construction-resources/zero-reveal-taping

    Nothing revolutionary in what is proposed, and whilst it's a bit more fiddly that a straight edge, it's still something that any decent installer should have done before - pretty much all windows have corners!
  3.  
    Re-reading your question, I see you might be asking about sealing the outer corners of the box itself, not window-to-box.

    We did this with a waterproof tape. Again, very simple to do and it reduced my concerns about end-grain ply absorbing water.

    NB. we also painted the surface of the timber with a marine-grade sealant once the windows were installed, just to be really sure.
  4.  
    Of course you have end grain ply on all edges of the box so waterproof tape on the corners won't do much for the rest of the edges however the marine grade sealant should do the job (and probably sort the corners as well without the tape)
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2026 edited
     
    Posted By: djhCan you not arrange that the ply box does not form part of your air barrier? Mine is the interior plaster over the box
    Hmmm, for newbuild yes, but in a messy retrofit, where inner plaster, 2 skins of blockwork, maybe-CWI between, outer render, in some places blown-in Warmcel, all come together to form the reveal face, I fancy a sheet of ply or whatever sealed airtight to the reveal-edges of the blockwork, to shut all that behind a 4-sided airtight box, so plaster + render + blown-in Warmcel between them can do a half-decent airtight in-to-out job, without leaking sideways at such reveals! Then 20 EPS inside the ply, then a visual-only 12 OSB lining (or combined as insulated plasterboard), as well as the cillboard.

    Posted By: Doubting_ThomasWe did this with a waterproof tape ... reduced my concerns about end-grain ply absorbing water
    Sounds like you applied the tape over the external faces of the ply, not into the internal angle?
    The former must happen before fixing the box inside the masonry reveals - much scope for the corners to be pulled apart a little or distorted during fixing, disrupting the tape?
    The latter allows the ply to be cut/trimmed to each other while fixing one at a time, the tape then bridging any gaps you're left with?

    Alternatively, the abovementioned 20 EPS inside the box gives space for a 19x19 bead or quadrant glued and tiny-screwed/stapled airtight into the box corners, instead of tape, all hidden by the visual-only lining. Tho perhaps, thus hidden from UV and wind pressure, I'd give more credence to tape.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2026 edited
     
    Any views on board thickness (why not really thin, like 11mm? - it's almost a monocoque, all stresses in-plane) - and material (is WBP ply OK, presumably def not OSB3, fibre cement/hardiebacker better?)
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2026
     
    Posted By: fostertompresumably def not OSB3
    why not?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2026
     
    The term WBP ply ( weather and Boil Proof ), although sometimes still used by Chinese manufacturers is now largely not used in Europe.
    European classification is by EN314 and EN636. As I understand it if you use EU stuff in this application would need to be EN314-2, class3 for bonding type, and EN636-3 - class3 for durability. That would be the highest rating,but you may get away with class2 in each case for a slightly lesser protection

    The WBP term may therefore be an indication of it's origin.
    I'm not familiar with EWI requirements but I'm guessing you could use "Buffalo Board", phenolic resin coated birch ply or other similar product readily available, edges will still need sealing as with all other ply's.
    Personally I'd avoid any particle boards, that's just personal preference.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2026
     
    Bit late to this party, but in my new build I used 12.5mm 'External' ply.

    I did my research and ordered the best spec I could find, but once fitted the exposed edges started to delaminate almost immediately. I immediately treated with Sadolins (I should have done this before fitting). I had the big sheets ripped down to the right size at a local business.

    I used some Soudal mastic to seal the boxes to the frames before fitting, then sealed again when the window plus boxes were fitted.

    What I learnt, was that for my windows, I really needed a 'slot' to fit the plasterboard to the side of the window and not butt it up against the window.

    So next time (!) I'd put a piece of Ply round the window to give me the slot then put the box on top of that (25mm in total allowed in sizing).
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2026 edited
     
    interesting - but not clear to visualise - could you do a rough diagram?

    Shocking about the delaminating. 'WBP' (water and boil proof) ply should withstand that - tho as a standard 'WBP' doesn't apply to the ply as a whole, but to the glue in it.
  5.  
    Marine ply (BS 1088) should do the trick. Although my understanding is that marine ply is 'just' durable hardwood veneers with a WBP glue whereas WBP plywood (should) use the same glue but with softwood veneers. WBP ply or what ever the new standard is shouldn’t delaminate as a result of glue failure. Rot or water damage to the veneers is another matter.

    But as I said above I installed windows in the insulation layer using steel brackets without the complexities of a box.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeFeb 23rd 2026 edited
     
    I did calcs that showed that even small-section steel brackets, oriented in the out-to-in direction, cause far more conduction (thermal bridging) than the ply box 'picture frame' method. Being 1000x as conductive as timber, even tiny total cross sectional area of steel (same applies to screws and nails e.g. long-screwing downslope battens through 150mm of roof EPS), conducts far more than a continuous cross section of thin ply. Or even a 'picture frame' made of 70x35 timber screwed edgewise to the outside face of the masonry.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeFeb 25th 2026
     
    Posted By: fostertominteresting - but not clear to visualise - could you do a rough diagram?

    One of the last posts I did on my website https://www.borpin.co.uk/2012/11/20/wall-complete-and-windows-going-in/

    What I would have done is put an extra bit of ply, around the frame first to create the 'slot' for the Plasterboard.

    The box might have been 18mm ply - it was 14 years ago!

    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryMarine ply (BS 1088)

    I think I found that doesn't exist. They use EN specs now and, as I said, I got the best I could but it was still rubbish!

    However, I am still really pleased with the result - it worked perfectly.
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