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General: Broadband and VoIP

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    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2026 edited
     
    What ho one and all,


    Frequently happening as I get older, I am getting my knickers in a twist as technology leaves me behind.
    At the moment, broadband and landline is with PlusNet via fibre to the pole. We are not paying for the landline, but it does receive incoming and we would pay per minute for outgoing calls.

    My contract is ending but PlusNet are no longer offer a landline, just Full Fibre b/b. However, their associate company EE, will offer full fibre to the house and I assume, VoIP to keep the phone and phone number.

    I am told that an engineer will have to assess how to get the fibre to, and then, into the house. At the moment, it is overhead to the front roof apex, then phone cable to the various RJ45 sockets which was part of the building process. The ''customer help' was not exactly helpful with my questions, but ......

    Fibre has to come to the router which if it was in the loft, can I then use the existing wiring to the computers on the g/f?

    The 'unhelpful' assistant was suggesting the fibre will have to be routed down the wall then drilled through the wall to where the office is located. The house is timber frame with Warmcel insulation. There is the breather paper on the frame (but that is inside the cavity) and internally, there is scrim under the Fermacel. Drilling through either of these materials is like drilling into a ball of wool; it just rips everything to shreds.

    How does a fibre cable come into a very well sealed house if it has to be drilled through the frame and insulation? Once inside the house, can I use the existing wiring to use additional computers in different rooms?

    Thanks and toodle pip
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2026
     
    You don't have to have the standard install with a grey box on the outside but Openreach are restricted on where they can work and your loft isn't where they go! If you understand what needs to be done then they'll do alternative installations but you'll need to do the bits they wont.

    Our fibre comes from a pole to the peak of a gable on the house, through the loft and down into an upstairs room. I had to run their cable through the loft. No grey box on the outside but it's in the upstairs room as its needed to join the external fibre cable to the internal cable.....the internal and external works are done by different teams!

    Why don't you reopen the thread you had previously on this as all the history is there.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2026
     
    Is there anywhere that documents what has to happen and what the flexibility is when they come to stop a landline? I've been told various things including that they can leave the wires from their box into our house, which seems unlikely!
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2026
     
    All the old copper cabling for our old phone line is still in place on the outside and into the house. The old overhead section of copper is still coiled up dangling from the poles that it was routed along. They didn't clear up much when they ran the fibre in!!
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2026 edited
     
    Thanks for the replies. Apologies for repeating the same question, but over the years, I tend to forget what I have asked. Not necessarily an age thing, just to much information that I do not fully understand.

    The 'useful' information I have gleaned to date is that I need an engineer to visit. Fair enough. But to book an engineer, I need to agree a contract, and if I don't like what the engineer suggests, I can then cancel the contract and look for another solution.

    Not happy but what choice do I get? Perhaps I am finally a grumpy old man?
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2026
     
    Openreach do the fibre install pretty much everywhere so you can choose who you want to supply your broadband but whoever you choose will likely be using Openreach to do the install. If you don't like the standard offering from the Openreach engineer then your stuck unless you come up with a workable solution, that meets their needs as well as yours.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2026
     
    Posted By: philedgeIf you don't like the standard offering from the Openreach engineer then your stuck unless you come up with a workable solution, that meets their needs as well as yours.
    Right, but is there anywhere that explains what their needs are, and what's considered a workable solution?
  8.  
    Our current place had fibre installed via a community organisation. The fibre is vanishingly thin.

    A pencil-thick conduit was installed by a couple of retiree community volunteers who drilled a hole through the wall with a long SDS drill and fed the conduit through, and dug another section of conduit under the flowerbed to the street. I provided tea and told them where I wanted it to end up.

    Later, some more technical looking professionals showed up with a van and ran the fibre in through the conduit and welded the joints.

    Finally, the volunteers came back and connected the fibre to the router inside the house and commissioned the connection. It's so much better than before.


    The router has sockets on it to distribute the connection around the house by ethernet, but I provided a network of mesh wi-fi. The fibre internet is 1 gigabyte per second so an existing home network might not be fast enough to distribute that without throttling it. I used these and am pleased with them, much easier than running wires around the house. One of the units is in a corner with the router next to where the fibre comes in, could go in a loft.
    https://www.argos.co.uk/product/9513024

    In this day and age, nobody should be paying per minute for phone calls, plenty of free solutions to that.
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2026 edited
     
    Posted By: djh
    Posted By: philedgeIf you don't like the standard offering from the Openreach engineer then your stuck unless you come up with a workable solution, that meets their needs as well as yours.
    Right, but is there anywhere that explains what their needs are, and what's considered a workable solution?

    Install is covered here https://www.openreach.com/help-and-support/full-fibre-broadband-installation-checklist

    I'm pretty sure there was a fair bit of discussion on fibre install a while back when Rex got the connection he has now. Probably worth reopening that thread??
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2026
     
    It's the small hole being drilled through the wall that concerns me!

    (a) Drilling through straw is a nightmare!

    (b) Given it's a PH, I care about airtightness. How can I ensure that? What is their plan for it?

    (c) I have a specific underground duct for telecomms and I'd prefer they used that. Actually I have two, one from the BT underground chamber at the end of our drive which is where the current BT cable is, and one from the garage (which is conventional timber construction, and not airtight). Both lead to a position near my router and power etc.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2026
     
    Posted By: philedgeI'm pretty sure there was a fair bit of discussion on fibre install a while back when Rex got the connection he has now.
    Do you remember it's title? Or date? Or anything to identify it?
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2026 edited
     
    Rex has 2 previous posts on fibre broadband, both titled "fibre broadband". There maybe others with a different title??

    Straw bale build is a bit of a niche so maybe outside Openreach skill set for a drilled entry, but a ducted entry shouldn't be a problem. You'll need to find a home for the customer service point that joins the external fibre to the internal fibre. This is the 6x6 grey box usually fitted to the outside of the house but they fit them inside if you bring the external cable directly into the house, such as through an underground duct.

    If you sign up for FTTP they send out an engineer to survey the job before they schedule installation. I'm pretty sure(certain) you can pull out of the fibre contract up until the time of service activation so if you don't like what they say at the survey just pull out/stall/negotiate what you want.

    As Openreach have a monopoly they are well regulated and pretty much obliged to provide a connection on request even at significant cost....they spent quite a bit on ours and it took 10 months!!!
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2026
     
    Thanks for the replies, and apologies for raising the similar topic over the years. Not so much that I forget previous posts, just that what with one thing and another, slips my mind.

    Will arrange a deal with EE and see what the engineer has to suggest. If I'm not happy, then I can remain with Plusnet and loose the landline.

    Towards the end of last year, I really needed the land line. A bank account in NZ was hacked and although the bank stopped the withdrawals, by that stage a considerable sum had been removed. One thing lead to another and I have been fully reimbursed, but to reinstate me as the account holder with all the required digital ID, etc, they required a long phone conversation on a landline, because they do not trust mobile for setting up an international ID.

    Additionally, my wife is Japanese and although very infrequently, if she needs to talk with any officialdom in Japan, mostly, a landline is required.
  14.  
    Rex you can keep your landline number when you move to a VoIP service, so as far as anyone else can tell, they are speaking to you on a landline. You could be on your mobile, or computer, or your telephone handset plugged into VoIP, anywhere in the world. You can choose a new number with a dialing code that looks like it's somewhere else.

    Likewise if you receive an unexpected phone call with apparently a Birmingham number, chances are that it's a scammer calling you from the other side of the world.
  15.  
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2026
     
    Posted By: djh(a) Drilling through straw is a nightmare!


    In that situation I would use a long pointed spike and use it as a needle to pull the cable through. Is that possible.?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2026
     
    Posted By: revor
    Posted By: djh(a) Drilling through straw is a nightmare!
    In that situation I would use a long pointed spike and use it as a needle to pull the cable through. Is that possible.?
    In principle, yes, but ...

    1) I lent my bale needles to somebody who hasn't returned them :(

    2) The straw is covered by lime render on both sides, of course. I can see how to start the hole, but not how to finish it.
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2026 edited
     
    I can see how to start the hole, but not how to finish it.

    And that is one of my issue with drilling through my render and into the timber frame / Warmcell / Fermacell and two layers of scrim. I did a test long time ago and the scrim just wraps itself around the drill and rips it to shreds. Then he would not be able to remove the drill!!!

    But I hope I have found a solution. If the fibre comes into the loft, which is where the current cable is, then hopefully, it has an RJ45 socket. I can route an ethernet cable down a boxed-in service void where the toilet sewer pipe drops down, and retrieve it at the bottom which is next to the 'office' and computers. Easier said than done but I beleive it is doable.

    However, had an interesting chat with an EE guy who told me that it is unlikely the Openreach engineer would install the fibre into the loft. Apparently, they need to have special H&S training and even then, it unusual. I pointed out that the current cable comes into the loft; I also suggested that it was OK for the engineer to work on a ladder at around 9m high, but not in a fully boarded, clean, bright loft. I know the guy does not know how my loft is, but I attach a photo; as you can see, almost as dangerous as working at 9m on a ladder!
      297e8f10-3718-45ee-91c3-97c6bd4400fd~1 (Medium).jpg
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2026
     
    Could you not insert a plastic or fibreglass conduit tube first, then foam fill after the cable is inserted. A small box on the outside would allow the conduit to enter from the back and provide a neat look. Ditto for the inside.
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2026
     
    Posted By: djh1) I lent my bale needles to somebody who hasn't returned them :(

    I know the feeling I no longer lend anything out.

    Posted By: djh2) The straw is covered by lime render on both sides, of course. I can see how to start the hole, but not how to finish it.


    The only solution is to start at both ends I have that situation with a block rendered/ plastered wall, one does not want to break out the wall finish even though it may be covered by a box or pipe cover. I drill through with a much smaller drill to mark the exit and I have a good idea of how thick the wall is so I am very careful with the exit. Your situation is a bit more difficult I guess, a sharp pointed needle and being careful where the exit hole is going to be with observer on exit side to watch would be an approach. Another way is put a large board tightly over the exit so stops the needle breaking through but enough to mark the exit point. If a fibre box is going on the outside then best to drill through from thr inside. I have only had to drill one hole through our house wall I had laid service ducts underground, but my gas pipe had to come in above ground level. I did not trust the gas man to drill the hole as I know the trades are not as careful as I would be.
    As you already have ducts you probably best persuading the installer (open reach?) to use them. They would probably prefer that. The BT engineer prefers that as well as he/she is making joint on inside. The reason open reach put box on outside is that they can come along whenver they want without houseowner being present. My fibre cable comes in underground through the duct I laid, and the junction box is on the inside and not being unsightly on the outside.
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2026
     
    As revor says they'll almost certainly use a duct if you ask them to, but the key is coordinating things. When they surveyed our install we agreed the external cable would come in through a gable and I would pull the cable through the loft and route it down to the room where it needed to go. There wouldn't be a grey box on the outside of the house but it would be mounted inside where the fibre terminates in the ONT. Despite that agreement Openreach engineers twice turned up to fit the grey customer service point box on the outside of the house. When I asked each of those engineers what Id agreed with their surveyor, they both looked at their notes and accepted that we didn't need a CSP on the outside!!!
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2026 edited
     
    Managed to whisper and H&S (dangerous loft working conditions) post but it is now visible above.

    Have Openreach coming next week and will handle the loft location when the guy is on-site. In the meantime, will run an ethernet CAT6 cable from the loft to the g/f office. Can kinda get 80% of the route without having to drill into the walls, but there is a sewer down-pipe that I will access the Fermacel boxing to bring the cable down.

    Hopefully up and running by the time Openreach come so it can be tested. Time will tell.
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2026
     
    Perhaps a dumb questions but does a ethernet face-plate like this (my cable has a plug fitted to each end) require a back-box?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethernet-Faceplate-Networking-Dual-Pass-Installation/dp/B09TZX2HJQ?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A2FODBJNNTXSR0

    As an aside, why do any of my posts automatically assume that I want to whisper to myself?
  24.  
    Don't call it a loft, call it 'the top floor ', will make their paperwork easier!

    The router will have a high-speed wi-fi access point and wi-fi travels well through wooden floors ime (less through stone walls!) so you might not need a physical cable. Or look at the high-speed mesh repeaters (Argos link in my previous post)
  25.  
    Yes that needs a back box, but the router will have a female socket on it, just plug your cable into that? Or use its wireless.


    Just measured the conduit that comes through my wall, it's 7mm outside diameter, so very skinny and floppy. Same dia as a pencil or chopstick.

    The fibre running though it is plastic coated to 3mm dia. On the outside that joins to a much thinner fibre that runs through the street conduits.

    . I don't remember how the conduit was fed though but I imagine they ran an 8mm drill through the wall starting from inside, stickytaped the conduit to the end of the bit, then pulled the bit back through. It probably did crater the render on the outside but that is now invisible behind a plastic junction box where the through-the-wall fibre was welded to the down-the-street fibre.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2026
     
    Posted By: Rexdoes a ethernet face-plate like this (my cable has a plug fitted to each end) require a back-box?
    Yes, or some other arrangement to protect the protruding internal gubbins.

    As an aside, why do any of my posts automatically assume that I want to whisper to myself?
    It's a feature of the new improved interface the AECB are gradually providing :bigsmile: :cry: They apparently changed something and have been unable to figure out how to avoid this unwanted side-effect.
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2026
     
    Thanks. Is a standard metal back box OK?

    Not sure about usine wireless as although a t/f house, we have built a Faraday Cage. Metal web joists and rafters, some f/f steel to support the open plan and the f/f has ali spreader plates for the UFH. Plus of course, the UFH has a ali lining.

    But I also plan to keep the phone, albeit VOiP. The router does have a phone socket so it needs to be at arms length rather than in the loft.

    I did not install CAT6 as I did not need it but also, I kinda have no idea about patch cables, patch panels and all the other tech vocab. Wanted to Keep it Simple but technology has moved on and made it complex.
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2026
     
    Another may be dumb question. If I use a CAT6 as linked above, will a regular metal back box have sufficient depth for a cable with plug attached?
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2026
     
    A regular 20/25mm deep metal back box won't have enough depth to get a plug into the back of the faceplate. You'll need a deeper back box or a deep surface box. I dont understand what you want the faceplate for

    Prof Google will help you with any tech you don't understand.

    Wherever you route the external fibre cable to make sure there is-
    Space for the grey CSP box
    Space for the ONT
    Space for the router within 1 metre of the ONT
    A double 13amp socket for the ONT and router power supplies
  30.  
    Back boxes:

    Metal: for burying in plastered masonry walls - not what you need

    Plastic: the kind with wings to grip when set into plasterboard or fermacell
    https://www.screwfix.com/p/tower-1-gang-dry-lining-box-35mm/231AV

    Plastic: the other kind that mounts onto the surface
    https://www.screwfix.com/p/deta-tte-1-gang-surface-pattress-box-32mm/142vt


    Each kind is available in different depths to suit whatever faceplate needs


    if the router doesn't end up next to where the phone is located, you can use your existing network of telephone sockets to connect to the voip socket, or use a cordless landline phone.

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