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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2026
     
    What ho one and all,

    In my continuing quest to find a way to thread a CAT6 cable from the loft to the office, it may (only may?) be useful to remove the toilet to allow better access to the small area of floor below the pipe.

    Not a big job, just a couple of screws and wiggle it free from the fittings. Of course, I would have ensured the cistern is empty.

    But the toilet has been in place for around 15 years and I am wondering if the various seals should be replaced when re-installing, or are they all OK to reuse? Of particular concern would be the two yellow seals, which I assume are not replaceable. I would give a smear of silicone grease around the seal before reinstalling.

    Your thoughts most gratefully taken on board.

    Thanks
      IMG_20260721_175748249 (Medium).jpg
  1.  
    The yellow ones don't need to be disturbed. The red ones are cheap and should be replaced.

    But best don't disturb any of it unless you really really have to. Leaks behind there are very hard to detect, until the furniture/floor chipboard goes all soggy and swollen. (Shudders at this memory!)
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2026
     
    Thanks and yes, I have found that the red ones are readily available.

    Unfortunately, the yellow ones do need to be removed as the section of floor that I want to cut a hole and hopefully, feed the cable is directly under the grey 90 degree pipe.
    • CommentAuthorArtiglio
    • CommentTimeJul 23rd 2026
     
    The grey 90 is easy and cheap to replace, but you’ll be disturbing the seal in the T on the main stack, i’ve never seen a seal alone be replaced , the whole fitting is. But if the T needed replacing it turns into a bit of a mission. Is the new data cable really that important?
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2026
     
    Until the fibre has been installed, I have no idea if we will have a suitable signal from the loft to the g/f office space. Faraday cage and all that sort of thing.

    I don't really want repeaters around the house; most people I know who have them, they are just sitting on the floor and look out of place.

    Plus, my W7 desktop computer does not have a wifi card but that is easily resolved, albeit, not so easy to find W7 compatible cards these days.

    However, I do have a bit of 4" piping with a seal at the end. I have levered it out. Basically, EDPM seal firmly attached to a plastic ring that is a tight fit in the groove of the pipe. So the seal is replaceable, the bigger challenge would be, does the fitting I buy (to get the seal) have the same diameter as the main stack?

    I'm probably being over cautious; if for whatever reason, a plumber had to replace the toilet, he would just lube the seal and fit it again.
    • CommentAuthorArtiglio
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2026
     
    If you were to need to change the toilet , you’d only be disturbing the two red seals in your picture. But yes if the yellow was disturbed first off it’d just be greased and replaced, unless it’s damaged , gone hard or displaced.
    Assuming you solve the w7 wifi issue then a wireless access point (WAP) on the ceiling over the stair well is a straight forward solution in many cases, or if you’ve got a power socket in the loft use a power line ethernet device then you can hardwire your desktop at other end. I used a tp link device in my last house.Worked fine.
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2026
     
    "Assuming you solve the w7 wifi issue then a wireless access point (WAP) on the ceiling over the stair well is a straight forward solution in many cases, or if you’ve got a power socket in the loft use a power line ethernet device then you can hardwire your desktop at other end. I used a tp link device in my last house."

    Just held the phone to the ceiling of the stair well and get a reading of -75dBm or good / fair.

    Yes, there is a 12A socket in the loft and I do use a power line whatever to connect the present router to the remote computer that we use to watch TV / films, etc.

    Are you suggesting that the ONT in the loft can be plugged into a power-line adapter, and at the office end, from the power-line adapter, into the router?
  2.  
    I don't like the idea of a socket in the loft being in permanent use (OK for occasional inspection lamps etc) I would prefer any powered equipment to be hard wired or connected with something like a wago connector that has certification for use in non-accessible places (but there are restrictions about how they are used)
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2026 edited
     
    I kinda agree with you but if OpenReach will put the ONT in the loft, it has to be powered. Apart from its a good idea to have 13A in the loft, I originally had planned to have a coax distribution box there and all the rooms with a coax socket, go up to the loft. All the parts have been waiting for the last 15 yeas to be wired up but I know that is not going to happen. The distribution thing with all the coax outlets needed power.

    It was all passed by the BCO when he inspected.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2026
     
    Posted By: RexIt was all passed by the BCO when he inspected.
    He doesn't pay for the fire insurance! I'd be more concerned about how the socket is connected and fused. Not part of a ring or an unfused spur I hope. And with a networked fire alarm up there.
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2026
     
    Not sure I fully understand. Single 13A socket, could be on a spur, will have to check. Could certainly fit a fuse, but not on the alarm circuit.

    Plenty of florescent lighting but also a second spur to power the MVHR unit. A the moment, I have laid down an extension to where the ONT will hopefully be locate as I'm sure it will not come with a 3 meter cable.
  3.  
    Are the coax cables in situ?

    Power line adapters send internet over power lines, but you can get similar things that send internet round the house over any unpowered cable, eg old phone cables or coax TV cables. Search 'MoCA adapters '
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2026
     
    Thanks for the mention of MoCA; not something I'd come across before. :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorArtiglio
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2026
     
    Is there something about sockets in loft spaces being especially problematic? Surely if installed and used correctly they represent no more of a risk than any other socket in a home. For the intended use of a powerline adapter and to power a router the amount of current is going to be negligible. Akin to having a tv plugged in , does anyone worry about that? ( not to mention , pc, printers, hifi, coffee machines , washing machine, boiler, mvhr).
  4.  
    I've fitted a power socket in my loft to power wi-fi gear. The issue is that the 20A/32A socket circuits do not run through the loft in many homes including mine, so you have to power the socket from the 6A lighting circuit.

    People imagine overloads if a 13A load were plugged into a 6A lighting circuit, but that's what the MCB/RCBO is for - it will shut off the power to the circuit preventing overload. Same as if several 13A loads were plugged into a 20A or 32A socket circuit.

    This would be a nuisance if it tripped out the lights in the loft while someone was working up there, so my wi-fi socket is connected via a 1A fused spur and labelled as such. There is plenty of spare capacity in the 6A lighting circuit for this load, all the LED lights and smoke detectors and high efficiency fans add up to half an amp.

    For Rex's newbuild there's a good chance his loft socket is powered as a spur from his downstairs 20A/32A socket circuit, this is easy to test by turning off the circuit MCBs until the loft socket goes off.
  5.  
    Posted By: ArtiglioIs there something about sockets in loft spaces being especially problematic?
    No more problematic than having a plug and socket anywhere else that is out of sight, never visited, and only attended when a problem arises - by which time it might be too late.

    The regs allow a socket in lofts but they must be on a spur (not a spur off a spur) and have RCD protection (the house RCD will cover this)

    IMO permanently used plugs and sockets are a bad idea in places that are not in plain sight.
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2026
     
    "Are the coax cables in situ?" Yes, but with the exception of the loft (and for the sake of OpenReach, the second floor!) the sockets in the office is not in a convenient location. At the build stage, it is impossible to second guess where A.N.Other in the future will want outlets.

    Yes, there are two 13A in the loft, one for the unused coaX cable distribution and the other for the MVHR unit. Also three florescent lamps. Have two fuses on the RCD, F/F Sockets and F/F Lights. Without checking, it would be my guess the loft is powered from those.
    • CommentAuthorArtiglio
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2026
     
    Pih - all but my first home , i’ve had sockets in the lofts , but they’ve either been part of the ring or spurs. All protected at consumer. In my flats they run from the landlords supply so added benefit of no chance of tampering by tenants.
    As part of a council landlord event , we had a talk from fire service. We were told the instances of fire from the fixed installation were rare and even more so in imstallations that had eicr’s ( electrical installation condition reports).
    Fire service reported more fires from faulty consumer electrics, the most common are the use of cheap chines chrgers and extension blocks, being used in bed and tucked under pillows. With fires related to scooters and ebikes being the most rapidly increasing problem.
    My electrician , when looking for trip faults. Usually associated with kettles, toasters and coffee machines in kitchens or irons. Either dodgy power cords (irons most common) or the sockets arcing out over time when used with high current items kettles, toasters etc.
    Issues i find , the sockets where hoovers plugged in cracking as people try to reach further than cord wants. Non uk 2 pin chargers used in sockets with a cocktail stick , bit of wood, plastic etc used to bypass the earth safety to enable the 2 pin plug to be inserted.
  6.  
    Posted By: ArtiglioAs part of a council landlord event , we had a talk from fire service. We were told the instances of fire from the fixed installation were rare and even more so in installations that had eicr’s

    Which is why
    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryI don't like the idea of a socket in the loft being in permanent use (OK for occasional inspection lamps etc) I would prefer any powered equipment to be hard wired or connected with something like a wago connector that has certification for use in non-accessible places (but there are restrictions about how they are used)
    • CommentAuthorArtiglio
    • CommentTime7 days ago
     
    There’s a bit of push back on using fixed fued outlets in last year or so. These days electricians prefer to connect the likes of boilers , aircon etc using plugs into sockets. It’s considered far safer. People were just turning items off and not removing fuses to isolate appliances and this has been deemed too risky. By using a plugs into sockets and socket, it’s much easier to fully isolate by removing the plug from the socket. My last two boiler instals are installed this way along with an mvhr.
    Of course it’s equally easy to reconnect. One electrician i use also likes it as it reduces the risk of damade to the fuse carrier on an fcu where people have levered it open with whatever first cones to hand. If he comes across one he chanes it to a plugs into sockets and socket unless customer objects.
    But not done for higher current devices that switch on/off repeatedly ( hobs, ovens, etc) as they can arc within the plug/socket over time.
  7.  
    A sparky friend told me (FWIW, maybe nothing) that his responsibility for the fixed wiring installation stops at a socket and anything plugged into that socket is a portable appliance so is the householder's responsibility, which he likes. Whereas things that are permanently wired to a FCU by removing the faceplate and screwing into the terminals are fixed installation and he has to sign them off when he leaves the job. He deeply dislikes plumbers so I can imagine him not wanting responsibility for the boiler installation!

    Both plugs and FCUs have fuses in them which produce heat by design, at 13A they should be just below their melting temperature. This heat can cause deterioration in the long run, especially if covered by insulation or in a hot loft. By wiring high-current items (cooker, immersion) into dedicated radial circuits they are protected by the respective MCB which moves away the need for a local fuse. I did think about using a 'smart' controlled plug to switch the immersion of my hot water cylinder, but didn't.


    For ultra-low current items like wi-fi gear, it's hard to find anything that doesn't have a low voltage power supply moulded into a mains plug. So pretty much essential to have a socket if mounting that above the ceiling in the loft.
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