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General: Dowsing

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      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 3rd 2008 edited
     
    Posted By: joe.enot a dramatic demonstration of my supernatural powers, which was rather what I had been hoping for
    20yrs ago, when I first read about dowsing, all my family could immediately do it, and I got nothing! Many years later, here it is. Try again.
    • CommentAuthorludite
    • CommentTimeSep 3rd 2008
     
    Look. back when I was single i could go months/years without a sniff of a man. . . .then all of a sudden 3 or 4 arrived at once!
    • CommentAuthorludite
    • CommentTimeSep 3rd 2008
     
    All i'm saying is: I never knowingly changed (apart from getting older). i can no more identify what made me 'irresistably attractive one minute, and 'dog from hell the next'. . . . .but what I do know is this:
    • CommentAuthorludite
    • CommentTimeSep 3rd 2008
     
    something indefinable did change.. . . . .maybe it was lots of small things all at the same time, or one big difference. . . . .. . . . . but my anecdote is not unusual. . . . .
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 3rd 2008
     
    Let's get the order of events straight ... first you were irresistably attractive and not a sniff of a man, then you were dog from hell and 3 or 4 men at once? Now that *is* something indefinable!
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeSep 3rd 2008 edited
     
    Hi Tom. Yes I did read what you wrote earlier.

    You appear to be saying that the presence of a sceptic affects the results of any scientific experiment set up to prove if dowsing works or not? So why not do it without the sceptic present? I'm sure such an experiment can be devised. How far away does he have to be? or does the mere fact that it is an experiment stop it working?

    Bit convenient that but ok here is an experiment... I'm going to contact a dowser somewhere in the world, choosen at random, on a random date at some time over the next 20 years. I plan to ask if his last dowsing job worked or not. Oops that's done it. Now all the dowsers in the world are unwilling participants in my experiment and I've stopped it working for everyone? or is it just any dowser that reads this?

    Sorry but I don't buy into the intentionality theory.
    •  
      CommentAuthorrogerwhit
    • CommentTimeSep 3rd 2008
     
    I don't see why science should have to come into it - if something works, then it works. Who might deny the accuracy and power of intuition, for example - yet it's un-explainable by science. Science is the effort of the rational mind, an ATTEMPT to explain the universe. It is not the only route to understanding, just a part of the armoury that's gifted to us as humans.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 4th 2008
     
    Posted By: rogerwhitthe accuracy and power of intuition, for example - yet it's un-explainable by science
    so far, I'm saying - no reason at all why not, eventually. Well put, last sentence. rogerwhit - however, I see no dividing line, in principle, between any and all routes, and science. Science can redefine its customs, procedures and limits. Pigs can fly.
    • CommentAuthorstephendv
    • CommentTimeSep 4th 2008
     
    Posted By: rogerwhitI don't see why science should have to come into it - if something works, then it works.

    That's exactly what's being disputed. First establish that it does work under controlled conditions that the dowsers are happy with, and then science can try and explain it. We're still stuck at step 1. Fostertom, would you agree that a test setup as described by TheDoctor, but controlled completely by machines would be a fair test?
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeSep 4th 2008 edited
     
    Posted By: rogerwhitI don't see why science should have to come into it - if something works, then it works.


    It's not allways does this or that work, but which is the most effective. If I was considering digging an expensive bore hole based on the advice of a dowser I'd want to know that there was at least some evidence it worked better than by chance. Otherwise I might prefer to spend my money on another method that had a widely accepted probability of success.

    Can a dowser differentiate between a water pipe and an electric cable? There are machines that can do that with virtually 100% accuracy if the electric cable is powered but I have to hire one. Without scientific data how do I decide which is better value for money? Hiring a dowser or hiring a cable locator?
  11.  
    I think the test with the pipes in the field would work.
    I would be happy to give it a go if someone wants to set it up, I would consider myself unbiased because I have had a go a few times and it seems to work for me, but I am not trying to set myself up as some kind of 'commercial dowser'
    Also I only think it works for the flow of water, so I wouldn't expect to be able to find an electric cable - although I have never tried.

    I was also under the understanding that it was to do with the rods - interestingly I managed to dowse the water main when leaning right over the fence with my arms fully outstretched, so it was where the rods were that mattered - not where my feet or brain was!
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 4th 2008 edited
     
    Posted By: Dominic Cooneyit was where the rods were that mattered - not where my feet or brain was!
    No, it's where your Intention says it will be, from moment to moment - e.g. 6ft ahead of you, if you like.
    Posted By: CWattersCan a dowser differentiate between a water pipe and an electric cable?
    Whatever you hold in mind, can be distinguished. There's endless different things, some familiar like water, cables, minerals, others quite puzzling, that you can detect and distinguish. Have you looked at my Autocad pic yet (end of p2)? If you guys won't try for yourself, at least look at that - gives some flavour of what happens.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMartian
    • CommentTimeSep 4th 2008
     
    I just looked at your pic Tom ... is it the wobbly nebula in the consellation Kilroywozere ?
    I think I might have have been there ... :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorTheDoctor
    • CommentTimeSep 5th 2008
     
    even as a complete disbeliever, this is fascinating stuff.

    I am upgrading my recommendations to a full 60 minute TV exploration into the phenomenon.
    no 'celebs' allowed
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 5th 2008 edited
     
    Amongst 'complete disbelievers', TheDoctor's response is open and scientific; Martian's is that of a fanatic 'true believer'.

    Here is is as a .jpg http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c301/fostertom/Drawing4.jpg . If you want to see it superimposed on a Google Earth aerial view of the site and buildings, you'll have to download the .dwg viewer as suggested above.
    • CommentAuthormarktime
    • CommentTimeSep 5th 2008
     
    You don't imagine that we would not recognise the footprint of HH the FSM? When the rod twitches or the pendulum swings it is because you have been touched by one of his noodly appendages and this is his sign. It is not called "Divining" for nothing.
    • CommentAuthorjoe.e
    • CommentTimeSep 5th 2008
     
    Posted By: fostertomThe pinpointed spots on the line (through which I've drawn a spline curve) are locatable to the millimetre on site by dowsing, if I wish. Some of these spots are the crossing points - and again, I can close my eyes and walk in, following the rod's direction as it swings, till it spins, open my eyes and I'm right on it.


    Can you clarify what we're looking at here, Fostertom - did you dowse the straight line then draw in the curving one, or did you dowse points that define the curves as well? The jpg doesn't have the points marked that the lines were drawn through.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 5th 2008
     
    Sorry joe.e, here it is with the dowsed spots showing: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c301/fostertom/Drawing4A-1.jpg

    marktime, that'll be His Holiness the Field Sales Manager? Who is the 'we' that you speak for? How do you know you won't actually enjoy noodly appendages, if you don't try?
    • CommentAuthormarktime
    • CommentTimeSep 5th 2008
     
    Ah! but now you have a problem. I say that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is wot dun it and you have no proof to offer to show that I am in error. And if you read all my posts on this thread again you might say "Ooops!" For he has blessed me and caressed me; may his flavour linger longer. And he has left a message for you but being blinded by your wilful intentions, you look but cannot see. Oh! dear.
    • CommentAuthorjoe.e
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2008
     
    Fostertom, am I right in thinking that the snaking line is the route you walked along initially, going back along the straight-ish line to confirm it's presence afterwards? Or did you walk another route through it?
    • CommentAuthord5se
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2008 edited
     
    I am not too bothered about how dowsing works - but I have proved that it works for me. A few months ago we purchased a dwelling for demolition, so we can build a replacement house on the site. We needed to locate the water supply pipe to connect a standpipe to it, effectively disconnecting the supply from the house. We had no idea where the supply pipe ran - the stop cock being a long way from the house. I made up a pair of dowsing rods from a metal coathanger. Each rod was bent at 90 degrees with a short leg and a long leg. Each of the short legs was passed through the barrel of a ball point pen and it was these barrels I held. The rods were therefore able to swing around freely and I had no way of gripping or turning them myself. I walked repeatedly across the frontage of the plot and each time the rods crossed we made a mark. We were able therby to plot the route of the supply pipe. On digging our trench the pipe was found exactly where the rods indicated it would be - at a depth of about 2ft 6in. I shall definitely use this method in future.
    • CommentAuthorjoe.e
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2008
     
    Posted By: d5seThe rods were therefore able to swing around freely and I had no way of gripping or turning them myself.

    It is you making them swing in - when you lean the 'handles' inwards a little the rods swing in, and when you lean the handles outwards the rods swing out. The movement of the rods is controlled by the person holding them; the question is, how do they subconsciously know when to make them swing?
    • CommentAuthord5se
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2008
     
    I made a conscious effort to hold the barrels perfectly upright at all times. My mind throughout was focused on 'water supply pipe' For whatever reason, the supply pipe position was correctly identified. For that I am grateful.
    • CommentAuthorjoe.e
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2008
     
    Posted By: d5seI made a conscious effort to hold the barrels perfectly upright at all times. My mind throughout was focused on 'water supply pipe' For whatever reason, the supply pipe position was correctly identified. For that I am grateful.

    It's a really interesting experience, and I'm not dismissing it. But when holding rods like that, only a very small hand movement is needed to make them swing. It might be instructive to drill two vertical holes in a 300mm length of wood, one towards each end, and set the rods in the holes. I'd be surprised if they swung together then.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2008
     
    Joe.e, the two lines are of equal (but opposite) status and were each dowsed independently, tho sharing crossing points. They are linked, 'equal partners'. All the points were located by measuring metres, or pacing, from known map features - hedges, buildings etc. To see the lines' relationship to the site, rather than just the .jpg. of the lines themselves, you'd need to download the .dwg viewer, as suggested above.

    No one's wondered what they are yet!
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2008 edited
     
    Posted By: joe.e
    Posted By: d5seI made a conscious effort to hold the barrels perfectly upright at all times. My mind throughout was focused on 'water supply pipe' For whatever reason, the supply pipe position was correctly identified. For that I am grateful.

    It's a really interesting experience, and I'm not dismissing it. But when holding rods like that, only a very small hand movement is needed to make them swing.
    joe.e is right - it's without doubt tiny muscle responses that are making the rods swing - their geometry is such as to amplify that muscle response by hairtrigger-sensitivity to gravity - i.e. tilt the vertical axis just slightly and 'downhill' switches from left to ahead to right, so the free end of the rod swings to wherever 'downhill' is, accordingly.

    d5se, that mind focus on 'water supply pipe' - or whatever it is you want to detect - is exactly how to do it - it's called Intentionality.

    If your mind contains scepticism, that's what you'll get back. If your mind contains 'I must temporarily suspend my scepticism', the 'matter' contained therein is still 'scepticism'! - negatives are ignored.
    • CommentAuthorjoe.e
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2008
     
    Posted By: fostertomJoe.e, the two lines are of equal (but opposite) status and were each dowsed independently, tho sharing crossing points. They are linked, 'equal partners'. All the points were located by measuring metres, or pacing, from known map features - hedges, buildings etc. To see the lines' relationship to the site, rather than just the .jpg. of the lines themselves, you'd need to download the .dwg viewer, as suggested above.

    No one's wondered what they are yet!

    I tried to get the .dwg viewer but I was unable to download the mac version for some reason. I have wondered what you identify the lines as - not quite the same thing, I know...

    How did you conduct the survey - what was your route over the ground?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2008 edited
     
    Aha looks like I can do JPGOUT to include the raster image - let's see if this works http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c301/fostertom/Drawing5.jpg

    Edit - not v clear - Photobucket has cut the resolution down. If you right click and Save As the image (or Mac equivalent), you can open it in some Picture Viewer and see it bigger. Note the interesting wiggles thro the outbuildings below the main house.
  29.  
    Hi Tom, Been away for a while and am interested to know what the lines represent without sifting though all of the above 88 posts. Can you give a brief explanation.
    • CommentAuthorTheDoctor
    • CommentTimeSep 8th 2008
     
    interesting

    with the number of points surveyed', it would be relatively easy to join them up in a number of ways to give a very different picture.

    what drove you to this conclusion?

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