Posted By: jamesingramthe job was 55m EWI with acrylic render 35m just arcylic render
the 35m required a key coat and a leveling coat which took a similiar amount of time as fixing the EWI
so I think it fair to say if we'd insulated that also costs would have been similiar

interesting - I'd had it in mind that, if rendering on blockwork or whatever, the extra cost of making it into rendered EWI would be small, because the render is such a major part of the total. Now you're saying that adding EWI behind the render in fact comes almost free!

Posted By: jamesingramEWI materials Ă‚ÂŁ 28m2
Other material costs Ă‚ÂŁ 10m2
labour Ă‚ÂŁ47m2

Does 'EWI materials' include the render, mesh etc, as part of the patent EWI system? So what does 'other materials' include?
Do you have a price for the EPS material alone? Cos if that's only a small part of the Ă‚ÂŁ28/m2, at 70mm thick, then it shd make little difference to the overall price, to double or quadruple the EPS thickness? Or do you think that EPS thicknesses greater than say 100mm start to involve more expensive/longer/specialist fixings, or more labour/time? EWI specialists have told me that the answer to the latter is 'not really' but I find that hard to believe.

mmm oxtail luvvly,

render only to block was on aerated so poor key required keying coat , so standard brick would only require levelling coat. swings and roundabouts , probably a bit more work in insulation fixing
other onecoat systems dont require leveling/priming coats etc.

other material include scaffolding , bit and bobs
I'll email supppliers spec. and pricing over to you

I'd have thought the moment you run out of space under the sofit , verges etc you're going to get large price increases , also its nice to leave a reasonable soffit etc to offer some longterm protection for the wall
so this would be a limiting factor on thickness/price

Yes, the best solution, makes sense and simple to do , change the eaves-sprocket detailing , put pricey ,
extra scaffold lift required new sofit/fascia/gutter work , finding matching 2nd hand tiles etc
would there be any planning issues ?

I have learnt a lot on this forum and in other places but have you the least idea how big are the obstacles to refurbishment-design for the poor old householder who is not in a position to DIY?

Many (?most) architects are just not there yet, surveyors have even further to go and structural engineers – well what can I say. There is a certain look that comes over them when the client says “Reducing heat loss is a very high priority for us”. It is a mixture of disdain and disbelief.

Then there are the planners. We are currently in negotiation with a National Parks Planning Authority who turned down an application to raise a roof by 250mm in order to add external insulation to a Victorian schoolroom (“open roof” with its original pine sarking boards on view internally and in fine condition). After two visits and lengthy explanations they might agree to 150mm if “thin fascia boards can be retained” but it is touch and go. They have allowed EWI on two sides of the building (stone) because the aesthetics had already been “spoilt” by a combination of cement render and “water-proofing” paint. They hate the two “solar” porches around external doors (so out of keeping, stone in the gothic style would look so much better!) but again may agree to reduced versions. The Authority has a pretty good policy document on “sustainability” with sections on solar gain and heat retention – great we thought that will really help us. However the planners feel entirely free to ignore the content. They know even less than us when it comes to reducing heat loss and reckon that internal insulation is the way to go – so much better from the aesthetic point of view.

If they do agree to the plans there will then be the problem of builders and building control because 1. architect + 2.surveyor have already decided the project is not for them – we have ignored their advice (1. dry line and 2. Beam and block floors and once you have underfloor heating the heat will only rise to about 6 feet so you won’t need to insulate the roof!!!). We are left with a reluctant technician modifying the drawings while the clock ticks on to the deadline. If we are lucky enough to get planning permission we will still have to --------------ahhhhhh. See what I mean?

Good stuff from both bella and headgear. bella, sounds like you've done remarkably well already with the Planners (which NPA is it?)! You can prob live with 150, if you go to highest-performance insulation boards. You'll prob have to lose 25 of that 150, as you'll need crossbattening over the flat top of the insulation boards, instead of single conventional slating battens as at present. As you're EWI-ing only two of the four facades, you'll have a problem creating a symmetrical wall-eave/verge situation. Do you have overhanging eaves/rafter ends? How will you in effect move them up by 150, having raised the roof finish plane by that amount?

Posted By: bellaforum ... raises the bar awfully high and leaves no way back

So true! I look forward to discovering where you are - sure we can find you a good designer, for a start.

you wont need to move drains -- just a small offset at ground level -- Ă‚ÂŁ100 should include all messing around but i think that a local builder well instructed ought to be able to do it for you for half the cost.

I wish I could get paid Ă‚ÂŁ 47 per meter for rendering even if it includes fixing insulation and mesh it is still very high.

looking back Ă‚ÂŁ85m2 ish was my ballpark figure last jan. for a non-specialist system
I was obviously over optimistic with my Ă‚ÂŁ55m2 a few months ago !

Oof! AFAIK sandblasting will tear great gashes in stone, seeking out the softer bits.

Stonemason says no chemicals and no sandblasting - best way is to chip off by hand. Could do some ourselves where it is loose already. It does not have to look good as it will be covered (I shall slate hang if all else fails, apparently slates were removed from two gable ends about 40 years ago) but does have to allow evaporation - "evaporate moisture" seems more direct description of what is required than "breath".

Anyone,

I am correct in thinking that cladding instead of render might make this less expensive?

Is cladding more doable for someone like me with low level skills and none at all in plastering?

Peter

Terms, yes terms. Stonework to gable end is rubble stone with only approximately flat surfaces horribly cement pointed and slurry painted. An old chimney within the wall has cause some stone corrosion in places.

"plastering isnt that difficult " I know some plasterers that have made a living for years doing it
but I wouldn't let them near one of my jobs ! Like most things, easy to do unless you're looking for that top notch
finish, then it require some real skill
The acrylic renders systems certainly easier than plastering , much more forgiving , just a bit time consuming
some good info here on detailing for EWI systems including possible DIY wood cladding
http://www.azobuild.com/downloads/GPG-external%20wall%20insulation%20MK.pdf

fostertom, There you are telling me how "fabulous" this stone wall will look when I am trying to make the place as dry and warm as possible with external insulation and/or cladding to SSW and WNW elevations. And I thought I was getting over my "preserve it at all costs" phase!! You see how difficult all this is?

headgear, A massive, gable end (SSW) wall was originally (or at least for first half of the 20th century) slate hung. The house sits on a very exposed site and this wall takes the prevailing wind and rain. Our proposed plan included a long lean-to glazed porch along this wall (leading up to the back door) under a slate roof at 45 degree pitch starting about 0.5m below the eves of the gable as a sort of echo functionally and aesthetically of the slate hanging - they did not like it one bit - but could they really object to re-instituting the slate hanging especially as they were so very concerned about "implications for wild-life" (by which they mean bats) as a consequence of our proposals. We don't have bats but wouldn't mind if we did and slate hanging is bat heaven.