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    •  
      CommentAuthorDAI_EVANS
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
     
    I know there was a thread on the old forum but I don't seem to be able to open it.....

    I'm trying to find some information out on the thermal properties and how good an insulator bubble wrap is.....I'm designing a transparent construction acedemy for a uni project and looking at using recycled bubble wrap (as long as someone hasn't killed it for stress relief first!) as an infil for transparent corrogated sheet cladding panels.

    Can anyone help?
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
     
    No, but I'd like to know what you discover. I have a hunch that it makes a pretty cost effective insulation. Now we just need a student doing a project to test that idea. :wink:
  1.  
    Not exactly scientific but I think screwfix quotes a U-value equivalent...

    (Note: is it UV stable....? if not stressed occupiers will not be the only durability risk)

    J
    •  
      CommentAuthorDAI_EVANS
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
     
    Shigeru Ban has used a similar thing to bubblewrap as insualtion before, which is not the wakiest thing he's done, he's pioneered paper buildings!

    As for being UV stable I've got no idea James, hopefully by the time the lecturers find out it isn't I'll be sunning it up somewhere tropical......like pembrokeshire! lol!

    It should be very good especially if you folded it into multiple layers, trapping air between the layers and not just in the bubbles, the weakness is the areas around the bubbles. I've just got to come up with something innovative for an external fabric, for some reason bubblewrap just 'popped' in my head!
  2.  
    Biff, What if we were to alternate layers of bubble-wrap with layers of wadding, and maybe some sort of reflective layer. Then we could call it....
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeFeb 26th 2009
     
    Google found the following post..

    http://listserv.repp.org/pipermail/greenbuilding_listserv.repp.org/2007-October/004684.html

    Shawna Henderson shawna at abridesign.com
    Tue Oct 30 13:48:49 EDT 2007

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ahhhh, does the bubble-wrap never go away? Here's the word on this product directly from Natural Resources Canada, supported by other North American agencies. Please note the R-values and the specific
    installation/placement of the material, and see note #1 for the biggest challenge to the claims of the manufacturers: extrapolating from existing standards for materials with different capacities etc.
    does not a qualified test make.


    As a result of countless inquiries from the general public, building contractors and building professionals concerning claims made by manufacturers of foil-faced bubble insulation (FFBI) products, Natural Resources Canada (NRCan) has prepared the following information dealing with the effective thermal resistance (RSI/R
    value) of FFBI and other non-bubble structure types of products for the purpose of modeling under its energy efficiency housing initiatives.

    Canada Mortgage and Housing (CMHC), the National Research Center (NRC) and other various agencies across North America have performed studies on reflective films, such as foil-faced or foil embedded bubble insulation, and caution potential buyers about exaggerated claims and limitations of these products.

    Currently, despite advertisements and comments made by manufacturers and salespeople in the Canadian marketplace, and unless otherwise proven by a respected third-party testing agency against a recognized
    standard for the testing of such reflective materials, NRCan recommends the following effective thermal resistance maximum values for FFBI products when modeling them with HOT2000â„¢ software.

    RSI 0.26 (R 1.5) where the bubble layer is between two layers of foil without air spaces in front of the foil.

    RSI 0.53 (R 3) where the bubble layer is between two layers of foil with only one air space in front of the interior facing foil.

    RSI 0.62 (R 3.5) where the bubble layer is between two layers of foil with air spaces in front of the foils.

    RSI 0.62 (R 3.5) where the foil layer is between two clear layers of bubbles acting as air spaces

    Refer to #5 below for information on the thermal resistance of other foil-faced products that do not incorporate an air bubble structure.

    Issues Concerning FFBI Products:

    1. There is no specific ASTM standard (American Society for Testing and Materials) applicable to FFBI products by which to rely upon. Manufacturers refer to various standards and extrapolate portions of various tests to indicate how the product will perform overall in the house. Therefore, it is currently extremely difficult to obtain proven, unbiased, third-party technical data on FFBI products.

    2. The United State's Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has explicitly stated that manufacturers in the U.S.A. must label their product with its basic R-value for the materials involved. This is the same method that NRCan uses for its rating of up to RSI 0.26 (R 1.5), where there is no air space. If the foil product is installed
    with an adjacent air space or other system, such as a layer of clear bubbles, then the FTC states that a "system R value" can be labeled to include the benefits of the material’s reflective qualities together with its basic R value. In Canada, no such information has yet been found on Canadian labeled products. It is important to note that in order to benefit from the system R values, the air space must be present and reflective coatings must be clean. Even the clear plastic bubbles can reduce reflectivity and overall performance. For
    a report on a system R value by the Canadian Construction Materials Centre (CCMC), visit

    http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/pubs/ci/v4no2/v4no2_7_e.html.

    It should be noted that due to the very complex nature of evaluating FFBI insulating products and their reflective/insulating properties, they are best evaluated as part of an assembly (e.g., wall, floor, slab
    and ceiling). Unfortunately, very little third party assembly testing has been undertaken to date.

    3. The majority of heat loss in the average Canadian home is from conductive heat loss and air leakage (not including windows). However, for houses with in-floor hydronic or electrical radiant heating, no substantial figures for radiant heat loss versus conductive heat loss are readily available (especially from basement
    floors). Nonetheless, leading manufacturers and researchers of in-floor hydronic heating systems do NOT recommend anything but foam based sub-slab insulation. You will not find reflective type sub-
    slab bubble insulation products or foil faced foam products in their manuals at this time. This includes bubble insulation where the reflective foil is between two clear layers of bubbles. An interesting report by CMHC on the Comparison of Under-Floor Insulation Systems can be found at: http://www.cmhc.ca/od/?pid=63728. The bubble insulation foil used in this report is the type where the reflective foil is between two clear layers of bubbles.

    4. According to the Reflective Insulation Manufacturers Association (RIMA), "Reflective vapour/air barrier products and reflective sheathing can, if properly installed, provide additional thermal resistance to wall and ceiling assemblies. To do so the surfaces must be faced with intervening airspaces and the surface
    characteristics of the reflective material must remain unchanged. The NRC has indicated that the thermal resistance of a 20-mm airspace with two reflective surfaces would be RSI 0.61 (R 3.46) for wall
    applications. However, the absence of an airspace on either side of the insulation prevents any additional reflective thermal resistance. In such applications these products are expected to provide a maximum of RSI 0.26 (R 1.5), assuming the bubbles remain intact and unperforated."

    5. If modeling a reflective foil film with or without a laminated layer of foam or fibre-based insulation board and there is a dead air space of 12 - 22 mm (½ inch to 1 inch), NRCan will accept an RSI value of 0.26 (R 1.5) for the foil and dead air space. If a layer of insulation is laminated to the foil with its adjacent air
    space, then also add the insulation's RSI/R value. For the RSI/R value of the laminated insulation itself, use the values in Appendix 1 of the Energy Advisor Workshop Manual or other reliable sourced value). As noted, if there is no air space, then just calculate the value of the insulation (single-layer foil membranes without an
    airspace have an RSI/R value of 0). If there is the possibility of air movement within the air space, the air currents (mass flow or convective air current) may negate the value of the reflective foil.

    NRCan does not discredit other valuable characteristics of foil-faced bubble insulation, such as its flexibility, its air/vapour barrier characteristics or its use to reflect solar radiation in cooling climates. The intent of this paper is only to provide information on the effective insulation value accepted by NRCan for this type of
    product, for the purpose of modeling houses under its energy efficiency housing initiatives.


    Shawna Henderson
    principal
    Abri Sustainable Design & Consulting
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    www.abridesign.com
    •  
      CommentAuthorDAI_EVANS
    • CommentTimeFeb 27th 2009
     
    Thanks for that, I'm trying to do it without the foil layers though as I want the wall and roof to be transluscent. Why have windows when your wall and roof can be? :bigsmile: Don't know how the tensile fabric curtain doors are going to go down though! :surprised::surprised:
  3.  
    I've seen something similar in West Cork, this chap built a 15' high 60' long polytunnel, put a decking inside, with a tensile fabric liner and a large ceramic stove to heat it, as far as i know he is still there 8 years later! There is a bubble wrap insulation screfix do, I've used on an ecobuild lodge i built, the material is thermaflect roof board by YBS insulation. It acts as the breather membrane, it has bubble wrap foil bonded to foil backed kingspan and is more than 70% recycled, we've used it three times and it is really good for cutting installation costs.
    •  
      CommentAuthorrichy
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2009
     
    I have 2 huge rolls of the stuff left over from 2001. It was all the rage before multifoil.

    Anyone want some? I'll swop it for something intersting!
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeMar 3rd 2009
     
    Dai, Have you seen the projects that use soap bubbles to insulate greenhouses? That might be an alternative.
    • CommentAuthordave45
    • CommentTimeMar 4th 2009
     
    FWIW I am sitting in a cellar that was professionally damproofed in part using foil-backed bubblewrap, and surfaced by insulated plasterboard and its still bl**dy cold. It aint good enough insulation.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDAI_EVANS
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2009
     
    Cheers guys, but my intention is to make the wall transparent to maximise natural daylight, A case study of which is the Naked House by Shigeru Ban. So using Foil backed bubblewrap will deter from the objective!
    •  
      CommentAuthorDAI_EVANS
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2009
     
    HELP!!!

    Can anyone suggest (or solve) how to combat condensation in my cladding panel? the panel comprises

    Polycarbonate sheet (twin leaf, similar to double glazed panel)
    Bubblewrap insulation
    Polycarbonate sheet (as above)
    All fixed to a timber frame

    Sizes are flexible at the moment...

    Any help greatly appreciated.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDAI_EVANS
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2009
     
    VACUUM SEAL!!! :D
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