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Housing - New Build: Whats the best flat roofing material for under a 'green' roof...?

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    • CommentAuthorjon
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2009
     
    Roofkrete is Tricky isn't it?

    Perhaps, if it's a trade secret, they could get someone eminent to sign an NDA and verify the consituent claims in a way that doesn't disclose the contents? Otherwise, it just makes the industry nervous.
  2.  
    ...not sure I can risk putting something in place under the turf that I don't really know what it is...

    ...how long has it been used in the UK (or anywhere else I suppose...)

    J
    • CommentAuthorSaint
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2009
     
    Roofkrete is now under new management and will be a totally different company. Not such a cottage industry image.
    New website to be launched soon. Product will be basically the same but company will offer far wider solutions. Watch this or rather their space!
  4.  
    ...how d'you know that then....?

    J
    • CommentAuthorSaint
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2009
     
    James...I could tell you but.....!
    Robin it should be live in a couple of weeks (or less)
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2009
     
    Posted By: jonRoofkrete is Tricky isn't it?

    Perhaps, if it's a trade secret ....


    Posted By: James Nortonnot sure I can risk putting something in place under the turf that I don't really know what it is
    Honestly boys you're getting all suspicious over nothing. It's not rocket science, just very expert cement technology.
    •  
      CommentAuthorali.gill
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2009
     
    i'm in the process of spec'ing roofkrete on a 52m2 roof terrace - just need to clarify if it can be used as the finished floor surface for regular foot traffic on an intensive green roof terrace.
    also they give a 30yr guarantee

    Main thing is to identify what type of green roof you will be specifying... see bauder site below
    http://www.bauder.co.uk/green-roof-landscaping
    also have you looked at the livingroofs site
    http://www.livingroofs.org/

    this firm impressed me at a local exhibition - more roof growth rather than roof covering
    http://www.livingwallsgreenroofs.co.uk/index.htm
    • CommentAuthorJulian
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2009 edited
     
    Posted By: ali.gilli'm in the process of spec'ing roofkrete on a 52m2 roof terrace - just need to clarify if it can be used as the finished floor surface for regular foot traffic on an intensive green roof terrace.
    >


    Ali, yes. You can.

    James, fear not. Our architect specified Roofkrete without me even saying a word about it. It's not more widely known because of the scale on which the business operated. It does have a 30 year guarantee, has been widely used for, I believe, around twelve years as a roofing membrane. Asl for a sample. I think you'll be surprised but I don't think you'll be disappointed.
  9.  
    I think a lot of the RoofKrete concern stems from the rather in your face website! S'pose if you've got something worth shouting about its hard not to.

    I note that Roofkrete contractors seem to be located largely in the south, any one know any North of Derby?


    J
    •  
      CommentAuthorali.gill
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2009
     
    had a call from jim farmer of roofkrete this afternoon.
    the firm is undergoing massive change with integration of a seriously experienced management team and ceo.
    as a roof covering roofkrete has been installed for over 20 yrs.
    new website to be launched soon along with re-branding and more diverse product application.

    for my requirement - roofkrete can be built up and finished with a stipple effect to give a slip resistant finished floor surface.
    • CommentAuthorSaint
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2009
     
    James N...see I told you!
    Now to explode the mystique of multifoil....................but sadly there isn't any.......
  12.  
    ...one thing not touched on is cost...

    anyone any ball bark /m2 cost ideas on Roofkrete or GRP, EPDM seems to be about 15/m2 plus labour, felt I would assume a bit less but more labour...

    J
    • CommentAuthorhowdytom
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2009
     
    if its a wet roof what about butile
  14.  
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2009
     
  16.  
    If you keep playing with it it'll fall off...

    J
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2009
     
    They were jealous ...
    •  
      CommentAuthorbetterroof
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2009
     
    I use Alwitra single ply for my green roofs it's pretty similar to sarna et al but reckons it's more eco oriented (which is partly green wash as it's still a thermoplastic so can't be that green by it's very nature). It does contain recycled material and it is recycle-able by the manufacturer and specialists. I use it as it lasts a lot longer than most other options and appeals to me loads more than epdm. costs wise you're looking at about £30 m2 installed. If you pm me the spec I can run off a rough costing for you to give you an idea.
    what sort of green roof are you looking at?
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2009
     
    What are the fibers/mesh normally used with Roofcrete? I couldn't fond anything on their site. On other sites, one says it's Glass Fibre reinforced and another that it's galvanised steel mesh.

    Isn't it unusual for a cement based products to be "green"?
    •  
      CommentAuthorali.gill
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2009
     
    apparently nuclear power is green
    there seem to be many very pale shades of green emerging recently
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2009
     
    Posted By: CWattersWhat are the fibers/mesh normally used with Roofcrete?
    10mm square mesh steel, needn't be galv but in practice that's what available. Multiple layers, so it fills the volume of the Roofkrete. http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=174 has all the answers.

    Green? well it uses very little material to maximum effect.
    • CommentAuthorRobLeigh
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2009 edited
     
    A full list of ingredients and method of application held by the RoofKrete owners is contained in a publicly available document, Patent GB2313137; link below. I have submitted an application to the Patent Office to have this patent revoked on my belief that the contents therein should be freely available for you and the rest of the public to use and not be under the ownership of any private individual. Compare the patent with the articles below and see if you agree on the technical details. My account includes email address should you wish to contact.

    The link to the patent I’m challenging is:

    http://gb.espacenet.com/search97cgi/s97_cgi.exe?sf=n&FIRST=1&F=0&CY=gb&LG=en&DB=gb.espacenet.com&PN=GB2313137&Submit=SEARCH&Action=FilterSearch&Filter=gb%2Fen%2Fespacefilt.hts&ResultTemplate=gb%2Fen%2Fresults.hts&ResultErrorTemplate=gb%2Fen%2Fincerror.hts&ResultCount=10

    The document I’m citing as Prior Art is (i.e. information freely available to the public):

    http://www.sefindia.org/forum/files/spshah_378.pdf


    I’m also citing aspects of this patent (published in 1974 is no longer in force and includes all the methods described in patent GB2313137):

    http://v3.espacenet.com/searchResults?locale=en_GB&PN=US3932969&compact=false&DB=EPODOC
    • CommentAuthorSaint
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2009 edited
     
    What happened to Steve Leigh?
    He was the biggest promoter of Roofkrete
  24.  
    So roofkrete eh...

    If its got a concrete-esque surface isn't that fertile territory for root damage in a green roof...?

    ...also how doe sit compare on cost (especially if you roofer is travelling across half the country)...

    J
    •  
      CommentAuthorali.gill
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2009
     
    "What are the fibers/mesh normally used with Roofcrete?"
    tech sheet - http://www.krete.co.uk/page65.html

    Roof terrace ~60m2 quoted £75sq/m by experienced installer.
    i believe there is a possibility of training contractors but don't know about cost
    training - http://www.krete.co.uk/page920.html#top
    • CommentAuthorRobLeigh
    • CommentTimeJul 22nd 2009 edited
     
    I have to admit the "Krete" web site is beautiful, but

    What is the product, is it sand and cement Y/N?

    Is it ferrocement?

    Is it just a beautiful presentation of what we already know?

    Have a look at the previous posting that cites the patent challenge and check it out for yourself
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJul 26th 2009
     
    Posted By: ali.gill"What are the fibers/mesh normally used with Roofcrete?"
    tech sheet -http://www.krete.co.uk/page65.html" rel="nofollow" >http://www.krete.co.uk/page65.html


    That shows what looks like galvanised steel mesh being used. I was actually interested to know what fibres, if any, were in the cement mix? All I could find out is that it's a patented "pre-mixed micro sand and cement mixture".

    Concrete/Cement isn't normally fully waterproof so presumably there is something else in it or is the plastic sheet under it providing the additional waterproof layer?
    • CommentAuthorjon
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2009
     
    The patent, certainly the first few claims, don't look watertight (sic) to me Rob given the Prior Art

    Most of it could be deduced from the British Standard in force at that time. But that application was structural and this falls into a different category. He might be able to combine latter claims to get enforceability but just looking at it I'd hazard a guess that claim 1 is sunk.
  29.  
    ...if this thread turns into a discussion of patent law I will not be happy...

    J
  30.  
    Roofkrete gone bust?

    http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums/tabid/53/forumid/22/postid/66253/view/topic/Default.aspx

    several other forum threads on google but nothing there when link clicked...

    J

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