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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2009
     
    Hi,

    I recently had some bespoke windows made for a customer and the chap who made them asked me if I had heard of Accoya as he had been approached to make some windows from it. He gave me a link as follows:-

    http://www.greenspec.co.uk/html/materials/accoya.html

    It almost seems too good to be true:-

    • 60 year minimum service life [BS8417] for joinery & cladding.
    • At least 3x more dimensionally stable than any other timber.
    • Upto 12 years maintenance for factory applied coatings.
    • Accoya wood is easy to process and presents no problems to product manufacturers.
    • Accoya wood is modified to the core and requires no end treatment on cut ends.
    • 100% non toxic. Off-cuts can be recycled, burnt or composted.
    • All Accoya is produced from plantation grown pine trees including FSC material.

    Any comments out there ref this product?

    Cheers

    Joe90
    • CommentAuthorJulian
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2009 edited
     
    Some interesting comments here
    http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2257

    also on googling titanwood
  1.  
    http://medite-europe.com/meditetricoya/index.asp

    Grave digging this old thread as the Accoya process is now also being used to produce an MDF board with a claimed service life of a minimum of 60 years.

    I wasn't aware of either product before today, so I have absolutely no knowledge of it but thought it might be of interest to many people on here...
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeApr 17th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: ......................
    Any comments out there ref this product?
    Cheers
    Joe90

    Acetylated wood, thermowood, plus other stuff like Glulam, Parallam, are all wonderful products that seem to find their way into prestige often commercial projects but the mainstream domestic building trade are notoriously difficult to change. Down to money I guess.
    • CommentAuthorCerisy
    • CommentTimeApr 17th 2012
     
    I was directed towards the thermowood option for exterior cladding by a really helpful Building Merchants here in Normandy. He suggested it for our new build as it was better for taking opaque stain and cheaper than the Siberian Larch I had specified. Latest scheme is with the planners, but I will report back when we get ordering.

    Strange thing we found though is that timber is cheaper in France than in the UK - about the only thing that is!!

    Jonathan
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeApr 17th 2012
     
    Do a forum search for 'accoya' and you'll find it's been covered in extensive detail elsewhere. :wink:

    Biggest problem is its cost and the fact that it doesn't come in "standard" sections, although if you're laminating sections I guess that wouldn't be a problem. Seems that it comes in sizes suitable for system manufacture, which makes sense, given its processed nature.
    • CommentAuthorlineweight
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2021
     
    I'm dredging up this thread from ten years ago because I increasingly see ACCOYA mentioned and it seems it's becoming a relatively mainstream option for things like window frames.

    Possibly there has been a bit more 'real world' testing in the intervening time - quite a few tests mentioned here including some over a 10-20 year span.

    My initial reaction is similar to the thread OP - is there a catch?

    I'd be interested to hear of anyone's experiences.

    Also - Accoya seems to be a brand name; do other companies produce essentially the same thing under different names?
    • CommentAuthorMike1
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2021 edited
     
    There are a few alternatives; Thermowood and Kebony come to mind.

    If you treat larch, Douglas fir or European oak with linseed oil rather than paint (or scorch it in the 'Shou Sugi Ban' style, for cladding), I'd guess the durability may be similar but I don't recall seeing an independent comparison. Modified woods may have the advantage on dimensional stability in harsh environments.

    The main catch, last time I checked, was the price.

    Accoya is also acidic, so no doubt shouldn't be used in direct contact with zinc cladding, and brass or stainless steel screws and fittings should probably be used (as with oak); there's probably some literature on this.
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2021
     
    Most hardwood frames will last as long as they are properly looked after. Of course if you want to install and never do anything I doubt any wood will last more than a few decades in an exposed situation.
    • CommentAuthorlineweight
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2021
     
    Posted By: JontiMost hardwood frames will last as long as they are properly looked after. Of course if you want to install and never do anything I doubt any wood will last more than a few decades in an exposed situation.


    I note that in the promotional stuff I posted above, with various test results, in most of them the Accoya is compared with things like Larch and Western Red Cedar.

    So are they choosing not to show that its performance is not dramatically different to certain hardwoods?
    • CommentAuthorArtiglio
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2021
     
    Its becoming increasingly popular, though the recent madness in timber prices mean that its now VERY expensive. Joiners, architects , decorators all like it for its stability and lack of call outs to ease doors or redecorate movement cracks in joints.
    The factory paint system is a bit of a bind as only large producers are likely to use it. Without it the warranties are void. But it seems that any decent breathable paint system can be used.
    I’ve made an oast cowl out of it , if it holds up as described and the paint does likewise the extended periods between refurbs will certainly cover the timber cost.
    Having some accoya windows fitted this week, bit of a luxury seeing as they’re on ground floor so maintenance would be easy anyway. But hopefully they’ll see me out and not need too much redecorating. I’ve gone for Jotun Demidekk ,( did some sapele sash windows 300m from sea in it in 2017 , still look very good) Hoping for at least 7 years hopefully 10mplus for cowl and new windows.
    One downside is that its really quite brittle and can be a nuisance to work at times , also sands to produce a dust that apparently doesn’t do power tools a lot of good.
    • CommentAuthorMike1
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2021 edited
     
    Posted By: lineweightSo are they choosing not to show that its performance is not dramatically different to certain hardwoods?

    It's not just hardwoods. There are plenty of examples of softwood joinery that are going strong after hundreds of years - some for over 1,000 years. But fewer examples that have been 'protected' with modern paints.
    • CommentAuthorArtiglio
    • CommentTimeJul 12th 2021
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Mike1</cite><blockquote><cite>Posted By: lineweight</cite>So are they choosing not to show that its performance is not dramatically different to certain hardwoods?</blockquote>
    It's not just hardwoods. There are plenty of examples of softwood joinery that are going strong after hundreds of years - some for over 1,000 years. But fewer examples that have been 'protected' with modern paints.</blockquote>

    And there must be tens of millions of examples of softwood joinery from past centuries that rotted away years ago. One of the biggest factors on how well joinery lasts is purely down to aspect and exposure. The good quality slow grown softwoods of years gone by had a natural advantage over the fast grown timbers of more recent years, accoya and similar processed timbersare just trying to find away to extend the life of timber that otherwise would’nt likely last long at all.
    If the modifications work and costs moderate a bit, its on the face of it a decent product. Though i’ve no idea of wether the process can be considered green.
    • CommentAuthorMike1
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2021
     
    Posted By: ArtiglioAnd there must be tens of millions of examples of softwood joinery from past centuries that rotted away years ago.
    And plenty of hardwood too; that was the comparison. Choose your species carefully and protect and maintain it well. And if you can afford it, Accoya seems good.
    • CommentAuthorlineweight
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2021
     
    Posted By: Artiglio
    The factory paint system is a bit of a bind as only large producers are likely to use it. Without it the warranties are void.


    Are you sure about that - I don't see mention in their warranty. Their technical guidance seems to prefer a factory applied coating but doesn't say it has to be. In any case, surely it would be impossible to achieve this at whatever point repainting was done.

    I note that they claim coatings should last longer than on other timbers as a result of its dimensional stability...ie. it doesn't shrink/swell as much.
    • CommentAuthorBeau
    • CommentTimeJul 13th 2021
     
    Posted By: lineweightI'm dredging up this thread from ten years ago because I increasingly see ACCOYA mentioned and it seems it's becoming a relatively mainstream option for things like window frames.

    Possibly there has been a bit more 'real world' testing in the intervening time - quite a few tests mentioned here including some over a 10-20 year span.

    My initial reaction is similar to the thread OP - is there a catch?

    I'd be interested to hear of anyone's experiences.

    Also - Accoya seems to be a brand name; do other companies produce essentially the same thing under different names?


    Dad had an Accoya door fitted a few years back. It still expands and shrinks with the seasons but maybe less than many woods. Horrible looking wood IMO
    • CommentAuthorArtiglio
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2021
     
    Lineweight

    On the invoices i’ve received there is a bold printed statement for each item ,

    “Manufacturers warranty covers replacement materials only if manufacturers recommended instructions are followed”

    When i queried this i was told it included the paint system which iirc is from Teknos.

    But having spoken to several people that use accoya and have done so for a few years , decided to give it a go. A previous project i did’nt use it purely on the basis of cost. That got done i sapele which has had no issues, but its only 4 years.
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