my 3G windows arrive tomorrow.....

BUilding Warrant (slightly different process in Scotland to Englandshire) was granted no questions asked with the comment
"I can see what you are doing. I can see you are trying to knock Building Regs standards in to touch, so i know you will put it up right so as to maximise on your extra spend - good for you"

Yes, i am 'overdoing' it, but not by the standards of this board,in my opinion.

My neighbour, meanwhile, is going through hell with the same BC Officer.
He is using a "Chartered Designer" as his "architect" (you can become a Chartered Designer if you make jewellery)

All arrived
all fitted
all in one piece.

they are the Traryd Fonster windows supplied by Rembrand Timber.
Maybe not the Rolls Royce of 3G, but they are looking good, and no problems with the mechanisms, ironmongery, locks etc.

their double door-sets are good too.
the handle operates to 'lock' the door open in what ever position you leave it, whether it be ajar or wide open.
great for the dog etc, and stops the door banging in the breeze.

A very nice touch

Any local glass merchant will be able to order what ever you want -- 3 quotes

Hope this is the right place for my question about triple glazing - didn't want to start a new thread yet.

I am trying to get triple glazed timber framed windows (would prefer SP Fonster) into an existing terraced house. However my discussions with the UK distributor have come to a dead end - they need a minimum order of £10K in order to place the order with Sweden, which is understandable, but I just don't have that many windows to do. Yet they are also reluctant to recommend any fitters that are used to ordering/fitting their windows.

I was thinking that if I could find a fitter that is used to fitting SP Fonster windows, they might be able to combine my order with another job they had on that would use the same windows. If anyone has any suggestions of who could do the job or has experience with fitting SP Fonster windows/doors, please let me know. I'm based in Manchester.

Many thanks.

try going over the head of the UK distributor, and talking straight to Sweden.

If they say that is not possible, suggest that their UK distributor is doing a fine job of not promoting their business.

I looked at specials for traryd fonster (supplied through rembrand) they had no problem with a specials order of around £3000, although i did eventually buy standard sizes

that's a bit of a different issue

you will need to measure the hard sizes into which the windows will have to fit.

This is obviously easier with no window in place.

window reveal details are different in different parts of the country too. In Scotland, the window traditionally sits behind a reveal, so the frame is actually larger than the visible daylight hole in the wall.

not sure what you have.

sounds like it may be best to go through a fitter, and he can supply all the sizes, however you need to make sure he gets what YOU want in terms of the product

Is 3G worth the extra expense and hassle in an older house where lots of heat will be lost through the walls??

I live in a 1830's stone built house in North Cumbria. Our North facing lounge gets cold in the winter especially as we never get any direct sunlight (even on the warmest days of summer the room never gets above 18-20C). We are looking to replace old wooden double glazing (draughty and only about 6-8mm between panes) with modern wooden 2G or 3G windows. As everyone is likely aware most installers have enouph problems installing wooden windows, let alone 3G and then seem to quote way above expected whilst insisting new Low-E Argon filled 2G is as good as 3G. Anyway with all the hassle, agro and costs is it even worth buying good quality 3G in a 1830's house with stone built walls??

I believe the wall construction is stone outer, rubble filled gap (or similar), then stone inner giving a wall thickness of about 18" (possibly slighty thicker). Whilst I know in modern eco-friendly houses 3G is the way to go does it make economic sense in older properties.

NB I hope to do either external or internal insulation on the walls at some point in the future but don't really have the budget at present!

Agreed TheDoctor but in reality I don't believe there is ever likely to be that much extra insulation. It comes down to the fact that insulating internally will reduce room size (and the thicker this insulation the less floorspace) whilst insulating externally is expensive (or so I'm led to believe) and due to various constraints such as not coming out past window sills, roof eaves etc is never likely to be more than 20-40mm thick anyway unless anyone knows differently (an improvement but not exactly Passiv-Hause standards ).

hi there,

new to the forum, i have been looking for good quality replacement windows for a while, and came across these,

http://www.albo.co.uk/wooden-windows-iv92strong-3plus.htm

has anybody here had anything to do with them? i traveled to their showroom to have a looksee and the gear looked good and they were, finished in a good paint (sikkens) very helpfull czech staff, they quoted us around the ten g mark for 28 windows, supply only, or plus 3g (ish) for fitting. considering that everest quoted us 37G yes that is 37000 big ones, for wooden double glazed, albeit hardwood windows i did not think it was to bad.
question for people who know about this sort of thing, when Albo say their window is
"overall u value Uw=0,8 W.m-2 K-1" and that according to them is higher than an A rated window, everests is A rated, what is the actual physical difference, to a layman??

thanks in advance, john.

thats what i thought,
as an example,
1000mm h x600mm w,single opening sash £248.
1000mm h x 1150mm w, split in the middle with one half an opening sash, £397.
1000mm h x 1770mm w, split into three, with 2 opening sashes, one at each side, £643.
they are just an average representation, but it does seem to be a good price, did you look at their website? what do you think of the specs?

john.

very interesting stuff,
the discrepancy is the fact that the windows were individually priced on the estimate, but then they knocked a bit off as a discount on the total, also said that they could poss do a bit more discount, 5% ish depending how busy the factory was and when we wanted them for.

Tru - and it's a thin frame

James,
The Pazen Enersign from Green Building Store achieves a centre pane of ~0.5W/m2K and a whole window U-value of 0.65W/m2K. Currently, as far as I know, it is the best comercially available window system. With some very slick detailing it looks great to boot!

Mark

When considering triple glazed windows most focus on Uwindow. But G is also important. At least as important, likley more for south facing windows.

My understanding is that the PH approach suggests that Gglass be 0.5 or higher. But just as Uglass is very different from Uwindow, so to is Gglass very different from Gwindow.

In my view the BFRC approach is a better way to compare the thermal performance of triple glazed windows. It takes into account U and G on an equivalent basis.

But I’m not aware of any PH windows makers that have published BFRC #’s. Likely the Enersign window would do better than most, because its frame is seems slimmer than its more massive brethren.

Like in the UK, here in North America, hinged windows tend to open outwards rather than inwards. Our Canadian rating system is very similar to the UK system; it is based on an average heat flow (calculate the gains, then subtract the losses). In this scheme triple glazed outswing windows with their relatively slimmer frames tend to do quite well – often better than triple glazed PH windows.
(As a sidenote, if you’re considering a Canadian triple glazed window keep in mind that U is about 10% higher here, because we calculate U based on a –20C outside temperature, rather than a –10C outside temperature)

So while its obviously necessary to focus on Uwindow when considering triple glazed windows, don’t forget about Gwindow. As a minimum, a fair comparison should be based on equal glass area, rather than equal frame area.

My understanding of the the difference in 'Ueuro' & 'Uamericas' as it relates to windows is due to the effect of radiation in combination with the larger indoor-outdoor temperature difference we use here in the former British North America.

Windows transfer heat through gas spaces by convection and radiation
Windows transfer heat through glass by conduction
Windows transfer heat to the environment by convection, radiation and conduction
Convection and conduction vary according to the temperature difference, so yes they are 'independant of temperature range'
Radiation however, varies with the temperature differnce raise to the fourth power. Even though low-e glass greatly reduces radiation heat transfer between lites of glass, it's still about 15% of the heat transfer. It seems that this is enough in combination with a slightly different temperature difference is enough to alter U by about 10%

As an example, when i draw a typical PH window in a Canadian 2-D heat transfer program i get an Uwindow,americas of 0.90 W/m^2K instead of the Uwindow,euro of 0.80 W/m^2K from the PH window company (this result is also somewhat affected by differences in the size used for these types of calculations between the two sides of the Atlantic)

Hope this helps.............