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Housing - New Build: Clarification re. lighting options

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    Having searched all my green building books, which number an embarrassing amount, I find no substantial advice re. lighting - I've tried to understand the threads on LEds versus CFLs with little or no enlightenment due to my lack of acquaintence with the tecghnical language. Please would some one cast some light on the following questions. Simple language much appreciated!

    The following following relate to our new build straw/timber triple glazed studio/house.....

    1) Being a long time devoted avoider of all fluorescent lighting, can you point me to any genuinely non flickering non blue CF bulbs?

    2) Please would someone clarify whether or not there are different fittings required for the above or whether they fit in standard lamp/light fittings. Building Regs. advice confusing in this respect.

    3) If I'm going for second hand seventies type suspended pendant lights, are they likely to be compatible with any lower energy bulbs and if so, which?

    Interested in options in keeping with somewhat hoagy re-used approach but would also like to be able to see in my middle years.....
    Although I'm up on most other low energy options, my willingness to change to low energy bulbs etc is extremely grudging!
    • CommentAuthorevan
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2010 edited
     
    All bulbs are CFL now, just go to any good DIY store and have a look at their display lamps. They are genuinely non-blue and non-flickering these days, honestly. Also many are in "globe" format which are compatible with anything which used a pearl incandescent bulb previously - and bayonet fitting is still standard.

    The only remaining drawback is warm-up time and that's getting better.

    LEDs aren't what you want by the sounds of it, and are still very "cutting edge" and expensive.

    Have fun!
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2010 edited
     
    1. I haven't noticed any flickering with Megaman CFL or the PL style tubes.
    1a. Most CFL are available in various "colour temperatures". "Cool white" tends to be slightly blue "warm white" tends to be slightly orange. I usually go for warm white.

    The main problem with CFL is the warm up time. They start off dimm and get brighter. Wait at least a few mins before you compare the colour.

    2. I believe the building regs require a certain number of fittings that cannot take high energy bulbs. Look for fittings designed to take CFL bulbs that meet Approved Document Part L. I believe these do..

    For downlights try..

    Chrome - http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GUFRD11C.html
    Satin - http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GUFRD11SC.html
    White - http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GUFRD11W.html

    Whatever make or type you go for I recommend buying one and trying it out before you buy lots.

    If you don't like the slow warm up it might be worth taking a look at fittings that take PL style tubes...

    http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GLAT113E.html

    If you opt for conventional linear strip lights choose one with a "high frequency balast" as they have less flickering...

    http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Lighting_Menu_Index/Kitchen_Lighting/Twin_Flo_1/index.html

    3) You could try installing standard pendants fitted with low energy bulbs. See if the BCO notices. If he does you may need to use special pendants that only take low energy bulbs. These are available (and are easily changed back to a conventional screw or bayonet fitting). Note that some low energy pendants are larger diameter and won't take a standard lamp shade. Example..

    Normal size..
    http://www.qvsdirect.com/QA-6-Inch-B22d-3-15-20W-Low-Energy-Pendant-Set-pr-22685.html
    Larger size..
    http://www.low-energy-lighting.com/pendant-18w.htm

    Not all CFL or PL tubes are dimmable. Choose where you use them with care. If in doubt check they are dimmable before purchase.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2010 edited
     
    Posted By: evanAll bulbs are CFL now, just go to any good DIY store and have a look at their display lamps.


    Sadly while the DIY store bulbs may comply with Part L few DIY store fittings do. Part L still requires a fitting that can't take a conventional incandescent or halogen bulb. Some BCO are more lenient on this than others.

    This is paragraph 43..

    http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADL1A_2006.pdf

    42 A way of showing compliance would be to provide lighting fittings ...snip... that only take lamps having a luminous efficacy greater than 40 lumens per circuit watt....snip.... Lighting fittings for GLS tunsten lamps with bayonet cap or Edison screw bases, or tungsten halogen lamps would not.
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      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2010
     
    Posted By: Carol hunterBeing a long time devoted avoider of all fluorescent lighting
    Good - why was that in your case? why change now?
    • CommentAuthorevan
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2010
     
    Posted By: CWatters
    Posted By: evanAll bulbs are CFL now, just go to any good DIY store and have a look at their display lamps.


    Sadly while the DIY store bulbs may comply with Part L few DIY store fittings do. Part L still requires a fitting that can't take a conventional incandescent or halogen bulb. Some BCO are more lenient on this than others.

    This is paragraph 43..

    http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADL1A_2006.pdf

    42 A way of showing compliance would be to provide lighting fittings ...snip... that only take lamps having a luminous efficacy greater than 40 lumens per circuit watt....snip.... Lighting fittings for GLS tunsten lamps with bayonet cap or Edison screw bases, or tungsten halogen lamps would not.


    Seriously? That's ridiculous! So what fitting have these idiots thought up that isn't E27 or BC?
    Given that I've *never* seen a domestic low energy bulb which isn't one of those?
  7.  
    Posted By: evanSeriously? That's ridiculous! So what fitting have these idiots thought up that isn't E27 or BC?
    Given that I've *never* seen a domestic low energy bulb which isn't one of those?

    Our 2 year old house has BC3 fittings in hallways, on landings & in a few of the rooms. They are like a bayonet fitting, but with 3 prongs. I didn't notice them until I tried to fit a 2 pin CFL.

    David
    • CommentAuthorevan
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2010 edited
     
    Wow. I found a picture: http://architectures.danlockton.co.uk/2007/03/28/a-bright-idea/

    That makes my pi** boil, frankly. I've never heard anything so daft, and I certainly hope it doesn't apply in Scotland.
  9.  
    Thanks for the care and detail of your responses - most illuminating....It unleashes a crowd of furies as I suspected it might but I have some very useful pointers. To Fostertom....I've always found they cause varying degrees of eye pain/strain and headaches. Some at the very blue end make me feel frankly psychotic...almost!
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2010
     
    Cd be the mercury-signature radiation of flourescents - the very symptoms ('mad as a hatter') you'd expect from constant-dosing misuse of Merc Sol homeopathic remedy (for which electronic administration is an alternative to pills).
    • CommentAuthorevan
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2010
     
    *raises an eyebrow*
    • CommentAuthorneelpeel
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2010
     
    Posted By: Carol hunter
    Although I'm up on most other low energy options, my willingness to change to low energy bulbs etc is extremely grudging!


    Why is this?? I find quite a few people with the same thinking, but I can't work out why.

    We spend so much time on this forum talking about heating and DHW and often miss out the obvious, easy stuff like lighting.

    DHW for instance - average (according to a few other posts that I've seen) is 45 litres per person per day.
    By my calcs this works out to be around 1700 kWh per year for 2 people in a household.

    Lighting - For my house I estimated an average of...1350 kWh per year...certainly not small-fry in my book.
    7 x 60W bulbs - 5hrs/day
    5 x 60W bulbs - 2hrs/day
    3 x 100W bulbs - 2hrs/day
    4 x 50W bulbs - 2hrs/day

    Changing all (except for a few lesser used halogens) my bulbs brought that down closer to 250 kWh per year.
    Yes, you do get some of the energy back as heat, but not always when and where you need it.

    I agree that some of the harsh white/blue lights give the room the feeling of a mental institution, but things have moved on from the crappy early bulbs. Apart from some of my bulbs having a 30 second 'warm-up' period until they're at full brightness I can't honestly tell the difference between them and standard incandescents.

    Buy a selection from a supermarket in one of their "5 for a pound" deals and try them out.
  13.  
    Posted By: fostertomCd be the mercury-signature radiation of flourescents -
    No it couldn't. There's just as much "mercury signature radiation" in sunlight as there is in a CFL.

    Paul in Montreal.
    • CommentAuthorneelpeel
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2010
     
    Posted By: Paul in Montreal
    Posted By: fostertomCd be the mercury-signature radiation of flourescents -
    No it couldn't. There's just as much "mercury signature radiation" in sunlight as there is in a CFL.

    Paul in Montreal.


    If I believed every semi-hysterical misrepresentation of facts that I see on this forum then I'd never leave the house (which would of course be made of mud).
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2010
     
    neelpeel, I'm really not sure whether to protect Paul, or me, from your semi-hysterical reaction. Paul and I enjoy this regular ding-dong - you don't have to get all life-threatened about it.
    • CommentAuthorneelpeel
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2010
     
    It was related to your comment regarding 'mercury-signature radiation'. Was meant to be tongue in cheek though. Maybe I should have added a smiley.

    Belated smiley...
    :bigsmile:
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2010
     
    Ok then - I'll just go and take a Nux Vom (for over-stimulation)!
    • CommentAuthorneelpeel
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2010
     
    Posted By: fostertomOk then - I'll just go and take a Nux Vom (for over-stimulation)!


    Don't get me started on Homeopathy!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2010
     
    Posted By: neelpeelwhich would of course be made of mud


    But what sort of light fittings will it have?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2010 edited
     
    Posted By: neelpeelDon't get me started on Homeopathy!
    Not a real smiley then - or rather one with teeth.
    • CommentAuthorneelpeel
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2010
     
    Posted By: fostertom
    Posted By: neelpeelDon't get me started on Homeopathy!
    Not a real smiley then - or rather one with teeth.


    :shamed: Assumed you were kidding, but if you're into a bit of nux vom then whatever works for you buddy. Just not my bag.
    • CommentAuthorneelpeel
    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2010
     
    Posted By: SteamyTea
    Posted By: neelpeelwhich would of course be made of mud


    But what sort of light fittings will it have?

    I'd use a variety of bulbs.


    I'm here all week...
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2010
     
    Posted By: neelpeelJust not my bag.
    I'll tell you when it's safe to come out.
    • CommentAuthorevan
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2010
     
    It's a perennial problem..
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2010
     
    Which one? there seem to be 3 disparate perennial problems running on this thread!
  26.  
    I agree with neelpeel that using a variety of CFL lamps creates a more pleasant effect than one big one or several of the same type - probably because it generates a wider range of wavelengths. Another tip is to produce a warmer light by positioning the lamp to reflect the light from a suitable surface. I once lined a soffit/pelmet with gold coloured foil to good effect. I've been well pleased with the Philips tornado/turbo energy saver range. They are more expensive than most (look for offers at Homebase) but are particularly bright and compact - the 5w variety being small enough to replace golf ball incandescents in some fittings.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeApr 2nd 2010 edited
     
    Posted By: evan

    Seriously? That's ridiculous! So what fitting have these idiots thought up that isn't E27 or BC?
    Given that I've *never* seen a domestic low energy bulb which isn't one of those?


    I'm sure you are familiar with GU10. Take a look at the tiny dimple on the base of a low energy GU10 bulb. All low energy GU10 downlights have a dimple on the bottom that mates with a peg on a "low energy only" fitting. It means that GU10 CFL will go into fittings with or without the peg but fitting with the peg will only take the low energy version.

    Ordinary strip lights comply as the balast is in the fitting. Lamp fittings and pendants that take 2 and 4 pin PL base tubes are readilly available from trade outlets like TLC.

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