Yes, the tariffs are much more complex than I would have thought acceptable: we need more of the same here in the UK.

BTW, I think that that was report 7! B^>

Rgds

Damon

3 September 2010. Report 9.

After nine and a half days work, it is done. Dominique and Pierre have left. You may think that 9.5 days is a long time, it is, but it was all solid work. Installing in the attic of an old (200 years) farmhouse was difficult. A new build would be much easier.

The Nibe heat pump is really excellent. It has many features, all easily controlled from a user-friendly colour display. Each screen has its own help screens. One very minor negative point - I had asked for a room thermostat. Normally the user adjusts the heap pump controls to get the desired temperature. The room thermostat with colour screen, would not communicate with the heat pump. Reason - down level firmware in the heat pump. Very quickly the Atlantic (French distributor of Nibe), sent me the correct level programme on the internet. It was transferred to the heat pump with a USB key. Cool eh? Perhaps the next generation will be connected to the internet, it would give remote update, remote control, and error reporting.

Last night I set the thermostat to 30 degrees to try and get the heat pump to start. It did. We had a hot night as underfloor heating has huge thermal inertia. It is very quiet. My concern about the floor of the attic space where it is installed, acting as a sounding board to the rooms below is totally dismissed. You have to stand in front of it to know it is working.

Both circulation pumps are software controlled. At the moment both are running 24/7 for 10 days to get all the air out of the circulating water. After 10 days they will return to automatic operation.

In late November, when it will be colder outside, Dominique will return to check that the system is working correctly under heating conditions. At present with outside temperatures of 17 to 26 degrees, it is doing nothing.

My plan to pay 40% at the start of work, 50% at installation complete, and 10% at the beginning of winter when correct working can be proved, seems to be working well.

It is really dead obvious, but when you experience something directly, it reinforces the well known rule - "The more preparation you do, the better will be the result." I wish I had learned more about the bore hole technology and discovered spacers. I also wish I had thought more about making the ground good after the trenches had been filled. If I had, I could have been more precise with agreements with the hole driller and the heat pump installer.

I have a few pictures that may be of interest. I hope to put them up in the next few days.

Hej Fridihem! Do I detect a slight partiality to Swedish technology here? Go on, tell me you actually drive a BMW! I have used Nibe and IVT (Ice Energy - and now WB I believe) and found them very satisfactory. I don't like all the integrated controls, but that's a personal thing.

Are you talking Legionnaires' disease here? Most of the heat pumps I install have capacity, sans immersion, to raise temps above 60 C, some above 65 C. Is this the recycling you are talking about?

Fridihem, Yes I am very impressed with Nibe engineering and design. It was probably the contrast with a French made product that was very basic and just assembled in a Factory. It was noisy too.

Tell me how is Nibe considered in Sweden, is it the best make? You know we Brits watch Wallander on TV, well it was very pleasing to see in one episode an advertisement for Nibe in the background. I am very impressed with the number of geothermal installations you have. Here in France the air/water systems are popular with new builds having water/water configurations.

I don't use the heat pump for hot water, I might add it later. Surely the heating for hot water is a closed system with heat exchanger, I don't understand how Legionnaires is a problem.

The Nibe for the French market is specially prepared for Atlantic the sole French distributor. For the other European countries Germany, UK and so on it is a standard product with the appropriate language changes.

Damon, Thanks for your kind comments. I will make regular posts as things change. I have to sort out the CurrentCost product. When the compressor is running, the CurrentCost shows over 5 KW. The rated load of the heat pump is 4.25 Kw. I think it is the inductive load giving an incorrect reading of true power. If any one can advise on this I would be pleased.

Yes Topher, the simple clip-on meters cannot handle variations in supply voltage, never mind power-factor and load waveform shape. They're going to get most low-energy lighting and switched-mode power supplies wrong (power factor sometimes well under 0.5). I nominally have a project with an electricity supplier to do better, but I never even seem to get 5 minutes to get cracking on it!

Rgds

Damon

Thank Douglas Adams for that I think

Only done the first two chapters and I fell asleep, general concepts, Laplace has nothing to fear from me yet.

CRUSOE.
Well, we do make a few good things over here, perhaps the reason why our trade surplus is so good, and NO, I don’t drive a BMW, it’s a Merc.

Regarding the Legionaires disease, Im am going by what my neighbours tells me, I do believe he had a relative who died from it , so perhaps he is worried.

TOPHER, Nibe is rated very highly here in Sweden, best or best, I don’t know, but many do install these makes in their homes. The number I quoted was not ALL geothermic but the total nr of heat pumps. Most city, town and village dwellers are connected to their local CHP plants, which supply more than 50% of the Swedish homes and businesses with heating and hot water

Posted By: topherSo what do you think, will this give me a reasonably accurate measure of power?

No, a compressor is an inductive load so the readings will not be accurate (though maybe your meter accounts for this). Further, a compressor is not an on/off device - its power consumption depends on the load and that depends on the entering water temperature of the ground loop and the temperature differential across the output side. The power consumption can vary considerably, especially in the first few minutes of operation as everything comes into equilibrium.

Paul in Montreal.

OK, Thanks both for the response. Perhaps I will buy a second hand 3 phase Kw hour meter and install that. Any ideas where to buy it? UK or France?

I have 230 V 3 phase, not 440 v 3 phase as in UK. Are the meters different for 230volt and 440 volt?

Regards,...........Topher.

8 September 2010. Report 10.

The weather is cooling here and I have found the heat pump has been coming on at night. I have reduced the thermostat setting to try and prevent this.

Using power monitors is of no use in measuring real power consumption as people have told me. So I am planning to buy a PRO 1250D 3 phase Kw Hour meter to measure the true consumption. Cost including VAT and delivery is £90.65 (GB Pounds). If anyone can suggest a cheaper alternative, I would be grateful.

In some places on the primary circuit there are unlagged parts, for example the filter and valve unit. When it is humid I get condensation which drips on the floor. I have to make up a little device to catch the drips.

Both primary and secondary pumps are still doing their 10 days 24/7 continuous running to get rid of the air. The temperature of the primary water is 14 degrees, so in the depths of winter the heat pump will be starting to raise the temperature from 14 degrees up to 35 which is the max set for the underfloor heating. I am hopeful of low energy costs.

Posted By: DamonHDCan you not lag the exposed bits somehow to avoid the condensation problem and energy wastage, eg wrap with a hot-water-tank jacket?

There is no energy wastage - it's the ground loop pipes and the water in them is cold, hence the condensation. I had the same issue but just wrapped pipe lagging around the valves and put little cups under the parts that couldn't be lagged to catch any drips. Problem solved.

Paul in Montreal.

JamesIngram,

Thanks for the post. Very disappointing report. Best COP for ground source like my system was 3.6. My Nibe claims 4.25 at 35 degrees. I am running at less than 35 degrees, so will I get COP = 4.25 ? If not what factors will reduce it?

Most interesting is the influence of correct set up. I am going to look into that.

11 September 2010. Report 11 Revised. Errors corrected. Apologies.

The 10 day continuous running of both circulating pumps has now ended. They were totally silent to my old ears. I thought I might switch it off for the first time and see what the 'CurrentCost' consumption monitor (not an accurate measurement) showed.

Power disconnected from Nibe unit by external circuit breaker - 0 watts. At least it is accurate at zero.
Power to Nibe, but Nibe switched off by front panel switch - 14 watts
Nibe unit switched on, but not operating - 110 reducing to 66 watts

So in the non heating season, switch it off at the circuit breaker.

I agree, but to be fair when I look the readings the secondary pump was on manual, I have since changed it to auto. Now I have the heat pump on, but not in an active heating mode, and it shows 19 watts. I suppose it is the consumption of the electronics measuring stuff and waiting to turn the compressor on.

I have to be careful with the following. . . . I very fortunately have access to a Nibe expert, and when the heating season starts we will go through all the many parameters and set them correctly. I will post the results.

In France, there are two possibilities for commissioning.
1. Pay 390 € and have an Atlantic (the sole French distributor) Nibe expert set the system up.
2. The installer sets the system up, cheaper but I am sure Dominique my installer, won't mind me saying that it is the first time he has installed an Atlantic (Nibe) system. I will share my experience with the Nibe expert with Dominique.