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Renewable Energy: Wood Gasification (Log) Boiler Experience?

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    • CommentAuthorPeter C
    • CommentTimeApr 29th 2009
     
    Hi reilig,

    From the questions you are asking about the flue I recommend that you contact one of the many flue manufacturers / retailers in Ireland.

    I have attended a lot of wood pellet boilers and gasifiers that were not working properly due to bad flue installations, they tend to cost a lot more to fix than to install properly from the start.

    SEI have a list of approved installers for gasifiers in Ireland, it might be worth checking out before expensive mistakes are made.
    • CommentAuthorJulian
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2009
     
    Overseeing the installation of a system similar to those described above, and this has no thermostatic mixing valve on the flow. The flows to both zones and the primary (to DHW cylinder) are pumped straight from the top of the tank at whatever the temp of that water will be. Is this likely to give over hot radiators or will the TRV's mitigate the high flow temps and is it likely to have an adverse effect of the stratification?
    Also no inhibitor used. Is use of inhibitor applicable in all cases or can you do without?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2009
     
    Hi Julian,
    The water in the store can at times reach in excess of 95 degrees. I don't think that's wise to push such hot water into the CH circuit, it needs to be blended first. The TRVs will shut the flow on and off of course but when they are, "on" the near boiling water is still being pumped into the rads, albeit only for a short time. After it's circuit of the CH system that water is still very hot and being pumped back into the bottom of the store where it will mix with the cooler store water creating a lukewarm mix. If the rads are old and the system is pressurised you may create radiator problems also, with such hot water, there is of course the safety issue too.
    The DHW cylinder may be another matter, the flow in that circuit presumably being controlled by a thermostatically operated pump, as your cylinder calls for hot water the pump switches on, circulates and then goes off again, as the DHW temp is reached.
    Regarding inhibitor, mixed opinions about that, I erred on the side of caution and used it, but it can get expensive. I used about a 5% mix.

    Mike
    • CommentAuthorJulian
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2009
     
    Hi Mike
    Thanks. That's very helpful. The heating engineer maintains that there is "no danger at all" of the rads being too hot. But I can't see how he can ignore the point you make. The flow is pumped from a tapping near the top of the tank. After the pump there's a three port manifold; to the primary (cylinder) zones 1 and 2. From what I understand a mixer valve should go in before the split to the zones but after the primary circuit which has its own motorised valve but not its own pump. If so it looks like I will have to take out the manifold to make room. There is a loading valve with a shunt between flow and return but that's not going to alter the flow temp dramatically is it?
    Julian
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2009
     
    Hi Julian,
    Without seeing the set up, I'm sure if your heating engineer has devised the layout it will probably work. However, is he familiar with accumulators and their operation? Essentially there are three issues first, the issue of safety and boiling hot rads etc; second, the maintainance of thermal layering in the tank, and flows and returns need to be positioned in order to assist that, and you need to take into consideration return temps.; and third; the efficiency of the whole system. By putting a link from the flow across to the return on the CH circuit and putting in place a controlled, variable, motorised valve, the same water keeps on circulating round and round only allowing a little of your precious store water in each time as demand requires.
    Hope all that makes sense, If not I'll try again, Mike
    • CommentAuthorJulian
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2009
     
    Hi Mike,
    That all makes perfect sense. I'm just coming to terms with the fact that the firm (who kept us waiting nearly 12 months before this finishing off of the job they started last year) have devised a system which is going to give me radiators at 80-90 degrees and may not work that well. I am going to have to bite the bullet and tackle it with them. Thanks very much for your clear and concise replies. I am happy to send you a jpeg of the system if you're interested.
    Thanks again
    Julian
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2009
     
    Hi Julian,
    I'd be interested in the jpeg. I can also send you a simple hand drawn sketch of my own system for you to cross reference, that is if I can put my drawing into the computer. I usually start to glaze over when it comes to the finer nuances IT, sorry. Fortunately, my other half is more savvy. Look up my forum entry for my email.

    regards, Mike
    • CommentAuthoradwindrum
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2009
     
    Owlman is spot on. I tried to save money by not putting a mixing valve into the ch system as I figured I would rather chop more wood and hang the efficicency for the 3-4 hundred quid saving, but I have since had one fitted and it makes the hot water go a lot further in the accumulator now. The stratification is much better now so I can have more dhw around 80 when the bottom of the tank is down to 40 degrees. The rads werent a problem at 90 degrees though and did heat the house up quicler than the rads at 50 now! I say take em to task and get one fitted.
  9.  
    Hi,
    Its a definate must for anyone else who does not haver a control over the water leaving the store. If the store top is about 10deg above the expected radiator temp then the mixer only takes what it needs to top up the returning radiator water back up to the radiator delivery temp. This will reduce the turn over of the store, reduce the depletion rate and maintain stratification. The other main advanatge if using a motorised mixer it offer some handraulic weather compensation. So when its warmish turn the rad delivery temp down a bit and visa versa.

    Cheers

    Mike up North
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2009
     
    Hi Adwindrum,
    Who's mixing valve do you have. I was intrigued to see that your rads only get to 50C. I have the ACASO Automix 20 and the room temp. controller has water min and max settings. It's possible to have the max at 80C.

    Regards, Mike
    • CommentAuthorJulian
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2009 edited
     
    Thanks adwindrum, Mike (Up North) and Mike Y,
    I talked to a couple of local installers today who supply thermostatic mixing valves and now have one on order. Both stressed, as all of you have, the importance of fitting such a valve to the system. I put it to my installer that the flow temps would be high and that it might hamper stratification. He said there was no effect on stratification and that a mixer valve wouldn't work. He suggested putting an adjustable stat on the tank to shut off the pump when the tank temperature went over a safe rad temp let's say 60 degrees with a stat to override this when the building cooled. I asked him what would then happen to all the hot water in the tank meanwhile. Eventually, after a pause, he said, "“You could do it with a mixer valve using the return. That’s the only way really”. Sigh.
    One of the local installers (sadly not fitting this system) said (as Mike Y has suggested) that plastic pipe has a dramatically shorter service life where used with constant high temps. As the house is plumbed in plastic this is just another reason not to pump near boiling water into my kids bedrooms or anywhere else for that matter.
    adwindrum - you have an Atmos I believe? How did you go about setting up the draft regulator (Honeywell Braukman FR24?) if you have one? Our installer couldn't work it out (slightly worryingly) and I asked whether it actuates only when the boiler is on? Simply turning the dial to set the temp seems to have no effect on the lever movement.

    Julian
  12.  
    Julian,
    Of course you need a mixer. Do not do the store lower temp option as this will severely limit the buffered heat available. With no mixer the heating pump will just horse the buffer water out of the tank. The other key point to consider is that when zones or radiators (with TRVs) close in, the hot water that is being taken from the tank will pretty much go round the pipes and come back to the tank. Although that means you are not consuming heat, you are still forcing hot water into the bottom of the buffer so you will mix it up or invert it. I think from the comment about using the mixerc across return suggests your installer isn’t entirely clear on the set up. This mixer should be across the heating flow and return, that is in the suplly line with a feed in from the return, iIt should be motorised with the sensor on the downstream supply flow pipe. You can do something similar with mechanical danfoss valves but you have to calculate flow and temp ranges carefully so as to select the correct valve specification. The motorised unit is more tolerant in that it will adjust to chase your desired delivery temp. Just tell him to get the ACASO unit as above no questions. Beware that many other mixers for say domestic hot water do not have the high temp range, they temper down water from say 65 deg to 40 ish for domestic use, you need a valve that operates over say 90-50 degrees so that you can select radiator supply in the range 65-80 deg.

    I would also consider a 3 port diverter in the return and operated with a pipe stat set around 40-45 ish deg. This should divert the radiator flow back round the rad system until it is cool enough to be returned to the buffer. If you have a buffer at 80 deg, and mix it down to 70 for radiator supply, then it would probably return from the rad at 60 deg. unless you can get the radiator system to drop 20+ deg then the return water is still quite warm to be going back into the tank. Therefore, you might have to run the tank through 2 complete cycles to use all the energy. Remember you have a device on the supply to the boiler (e.g. laddomat) to raise the temp of the boiler feed. This will raise the temp to say 55 deg (so as to ensure the boiler exit temp is high enough). If you have filled the buffer with radiator return water at 60 ish deg then you are only really extracting energy over the upper range of temperature. Therefore, you could insert the diverter and recycle the radiator water till it falls to say 45 deg. The at this point the diverter moves from isolating the buffer to feeding back to the buffer lower section. Hot water is drawn from the top section and mixed down to 70 deg (rad supply) this is done with some of the 45 ish water that is now in the rad circuit and coming back to the buffer. When the returning water rises in temp (>45 deg) the diverter operates again and locks out the buffer. So forth and so forth. This will ensure you have relatively cool tank with min turnover when you come to fire up the boiler.

    Finishing with a cool buffer tank will also give a good heat sink if you have solar.
    It goes with out saying that the radiator supply pump should be a Grundfoss alpha+ fully modulating pump. These can adjust themselves right down to a closed in dead head system. Aside from saving energy by only turning as fast as is needed, the reducing flow as TRVs/zones close in again reduces the flow in and out of the buffer. Therefore, this is an absolute must.

    Cheers
    Mike up North
    • CommentAuthorJulian
    • CommentTimeMay 21st 2009
     
    Thanks Mike (Up North) for comprehensive and clear instructions. I called a thermostatic mixer valve supplier after and he said the Acaso was not ideal where there is more than one heating zone. If I've understood it right two units would be needed - one for each zone? He suggested another option - the Acaso CT which he said was similar to the Thermomatic K.

    What I think I need to do is replumb the short run of plastic pipe between the DHW cylinder and the accumulator with copper to take advantage of high flow temps in the primary and then fit a mixer as you have described on the heating flows. It also seems sensible as you suggest (and as Mike Y reccomended) to fit a modulating pump such as the Grundfoss alpha +. So is it best to replace the pump, then instead of running the flow into a 3 port manifold divide it into radiators and primary? Primary to go off to the cylinder at top of tank temperature. Flow to rads then has thermostatic mixer valve with feed from the return. This then divides to supply both zones. So one pump, one TMV(?).

    When you say I should consider a 3 port diverter in the return and operated with a pipe stat set around 40-45 degrees this is, if I have understood correctly, in addition to the TMV. Where the TMV allows some cooler water from the return into the flow to reduce the temp this diverter (please correct me if I'm wrong) would simply stop all the return water from going back into the tank until it had cooled to say 40 degrees rather than sending it back in at 60 degrees if the flow temp had been mixed down to about 70 from a higher temp.

    One peripheral aspect of the installation is the quench circuit to the boiler. This is plumbed in 15mm copper off the cold (potable) water system directly to the tapping on top of the boiler. As the boiler got up to temperature this pipe got quite hot. As this is has to be an open connection (and at the risk of sounding like a water regulations obsessive) is there a risk that tepid water could rise up the pipe and mix with potable water in the cold water system? Is it normal to have a fully open connection with no check valve or similar? There seems to be nothing in the manual about whether a check valve could / could not be fitted.

    Many thanks for comprehensive guidance. I do appreciate it.

    Julian
  14.  
    Julian,

    Yes i wasnt clear about the mixer it is the CT which means constant temp so it will endeavour to mix to the set temp based on the probe which is mounted on the pipe down stream. The CT-R has a control dial that looks like a heating thermostat except that its marked 40-80 deg. I would go for this one as you can mount the dial upto 15m away from the valve. So the valve is with the boiler/buffer and the dual could be in the next room/house. This will enable you to control the rad delivery temp without visiting the boiler/buffer which is quite nice. I think the Thermo K looks lumpy. You can down load the inof from the acaso web site or email them. they speak very good english and do respond to technical queries from the man in the street.

    Yes as you have worked out ther diverter is down from from the mixer so it hold the water in a closed loop untill cool enough to go back, then when going back the incoming (very hot) is tempered down by some of the cooler water by the mixer. but when that rad water which is now hot has been round the circuit and comes back at say 60 deg the diverter shuts it in and so forth. Thus the mixer is only mixing when this topping up is done.

    Cheers
    Mike up North
    • CommentAuthorJulian
    • CommentTimeMay 21st 2009 edited
     
    Thanks again Mike - helpful and comprehensive as ever. Heating engineer came back today and I put these questions to him again complete with your description of hot return water going back at the bottom of the tank. This time he had to accept that this would mix up the tank layers.

    On the question of the service life of plastic barrier pipes being shortened by high temps I tried to get some answers from John Guest and Wavin who make Hep2o (couldn't get an answer yet). Very helpful tech support at JG stated that speedfit barrier is guaranteed for 25 years and rated in normal use up to 105 degrees at 3 bar. So it looks like <95 degrees at 1.5bar is within that.

    Edit: This problem now solved....Have any atmos installers/users found setting the Honeywell FR24 awkward. It doesn't seem to operate neither closing nor opening the flap at the rear.
    • CommentAuthorWacker
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2009
     
    Hi All
    Just looking for a bit of advice! Currently installing an Atmos 75KW Wood Gasifying Boiler which I am connecting to a 10,000Litre buffer tank. I have 2 queries - firstly, just realised that the connection of the overheating protecting cooling loop with a safety valve Honeywell TS130 will not be as straightforward as I first thought. The reason being that at the time that it would be needed ie. powercut/failure etc.. my cold water supply will also be affected as it comes from my own well as I have no access to mains supply!
    Secondly, regarding flue installation, I am connecting a 200mm diameter 3.5m flue to the burner which will protrude 1metre through the roof. As I live in the country on the top of a hill, the usual problem is that there is too much of a draw from our chimneys but now that it has come to the installation, I am considering using either a mechanical or fan assisted draught regulator. Please advise!
    • CommentAuthorJulian
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2009
     
    Hi Wacker
    That's a big system. I faced the same problem originally with a smaller Atmos boiler but we're now fortunate to have mains. We set up 2 x 1000litre IBC tanks (palletised plastic liquid containers) filled with water on a bank outside to quench the boiler via gravity. Have you the means to do something similar?

    The flue: can you give a little more information please? Why do you feel the fan might be needed for example? Is it because of the length of the flue? The Atmos manual should have some flue sizes. One thing I have always found is that Atmos invariably respond to technical enquiries the same day. They have always been extremely helpful to me. The guy's name is Lukas Korel.
    Julian
    • CommentAuthorWacker
    • CommentTimeJun 7th 2009
     
    HI Julian
    Thanks for your advice! Yes I see where you are coming from with the gravity feed but given the size of the fuel duct is 3 times more than the average 25-35KW Atmos, does this mean that I would need 7000Litres to quench the fire? And given that I can only achieve a header distance of 4ft, i don't think it would give the min 2 bar pressure required. My options seem to be :-
    1. As you say set up a gravity feed
    2. Pay €2000 connection for a mains supply
    3. Install an automatic generator
    Either way it looks like spending more euros than I had budgeted for, but is this one aspect that I should employ the best option rather than the cheapest one?

    Regarding the flue, my concern stems from the fact I mentioned earlier, I live on an exposed site and on a windy day there is a massive draw in all the chimneys. This was my reason for not doing as Atmos recommends and installing a 7m high flue. I am now concerned that on a calm day I might not have enough draw. If i installed a fan assisted draw regulator, would it control the draw on calm/windy days?

    I am reluctant to contact Atmos or flue manufacturers until I get a better understanding myself. I am more interested in learning from the real life experiences on this forum and taking on board these comments.
    I have been reading this forum for quite some time now and find it really helpful.

    ps. The reason for installing such a big system is that I only intend firing the burner at the weekends.

    Thanks
    W
  19.  
    Hi,
    Julian have just emailed some stuff.
    Wacker - buy a cheap generator a 1500w unit as used by burger vans is as cheap as chips.
    Its worth it as usually when the power goes off its very cold and very windy so your system would be loaded up full blast.
    I have well water as well - so no mains water incoming. No power means no water into DHW cylinder as well, no heating circulator either. So aside from the quench protection youve also lost the means to transfer the heat. A cheap genny if only used once or twice will be worth it.
    Cheers
    Mike up North
    • CommentAuthorbillt
    • CommentTimeJun 8th 2009
     
    Those cheap gennies need to be started manually and the chances are that you won't be around to start it when the power failure happens.

    A good UPS with high capacity batteries may be a better option and should be cheaper than an auto start generator. (You only need 50-100W to run the boiler circulation pump.)
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2009
     
    Hi Wacker,

    Thats a huge system, Are you running a hotel or something like that? I've got a 35KW boiler and a 2000l store and now, in summer I'm only firing every 5 or 6 days with just DHW useage. Admitedly in winter we fire almost every day, presumably, you are trying to reduce that winter firing. I guess you've done your heat loss calcs but 10000l, and 75KW; Wow!! Is the store super insulated? I understand the principle of a quench coil but some manufacturers, including high spec German boilers don't seem to consider them. In the event of a power failure, the boiler fan and the air intake dampers close thereby starving the fire of oxygen, I know the loading valve pump would fail also, but it would then revert to it's own power failure mode, and allow self circulation, and if your main boiler/store flow and return is correctly sized, and of sufficient bore, say 35 or 42mm the thing would just thermosyphon and cooler water from the bottom of the store would quickly enter the boiler, similar end result as quench coil,- no? I'm only saying all this simply to illustrate the fact that your worry about the quantity of water required to flow through the quench coil is perhaps unfounded. Also looking at the size and length of some of the coils, in fact some aren't coils at all, just a loop of pipe probably only 22mm. I have my doubts of their ability to quickly bring down boiler temp, especially if that water is flowing too quickly eg. high mains pressure. Perhaps your proposed lower pressure water would work to your advantage here allowing greater heat exchange to take place?? Do you have a drain next to the boiler? Look at the situation holistically. Do you need a Quench coil ?? ( ask ATMOS; What if I didn't have one ? What safety features does the boiler have without the coil ?) Then add to those answers the issue of good pipe size and the natural thermosyphon in the event of power failure and it may be you are layering safety on top of safety.
    Had you worked out how many hours burn you would require in order to bring your store up to 90 degrees+, top to bottom. I'm guessing at least a 12-18 hour burn, with a couple or replen's to boot, because if you are leaving it for a week between burns it's going to run the temp. quite low, therefore requiring longer burning to bring it back up again.
    When I installed my system I put the whole power supply to the boiler system and all it's other components on a separate consumer unit with a simple change/isolater switch and plug outside for a generator. Is your area particularly prone to power cuts? With only one firing per week, is the worry that great?
    Regarding your flue, my gut reaction is that at 3.5m you are a bit on the low side. I'd be tempted to install a good automatic draught regulator in the flue as standard and be prepared to add another metre or so onto the flue length.
    Sorry for the "egg sucking" sound of all that, not intentional, and no offence.

    That's one monster you are installing, Good luck, Mike
    • CommentAuthorjsav
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2009
     
    Hi there,
    Please can anyone help,
    Im interested in having a wood gasification boiler installed but im having a real problem find a local installer.(Selby North Yorks) Is it possible to buy all the gear and fit it myself without having someone to comission the boiler to cover building regs. Im sure I read somewhere that a certificate was required if I ever decided to sell my house. Can anyone tell me if im barking up the wrong tree!!
    Any comments welcome.
    JSav.
    • CommentAuthorWacker
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2009
     
    Thanks Guys - digesting your comments and all have good merit!
    I suppose installing such a big system, I need to do a bit of explaining so here goes.....brace yourself for War & Peace! I built my own house in 2002, its about 5,000sq foot including basement. I have just completed an annexe for my mother which is a further 1000sq foot so I am determined not to heat all that area with oil next year. My intention was always to install this system as I have the luxury of owning over 20 acres of conifers at my back door. I first contacted a froling agent who gave me a quote of €12,000 for a 30KW burner, a 1500litre buffer tank and 300litre expansion vessel - supply only. From speaking to others who had installed such a system, I soon realised that in my case, that i would have to move out to the shed in the winter months as I reckoned I would be constantly chopping, feeding and cleaning!! In any case, with froling I felt you were paying for the name and the ability/flexibility (they claimed) to add a secondary heat source which I had no interest in doing.

    I then started to trawl the net and came across a boiler that ticked all the boxes - the Herlt HV65. If money was no obstacle, she was the one! Unfortunately it is & at €12,000 + vat+delivery just for the boiler, it can stay in Germany.

    Then came the Eureka moment, I googled wood burning forums and happened on this site which led me to Kotly. com. Here I purchased a 75KW Atmos for a mere €3,400 not only that I got 3x 320 litre expansion vessels for €600 which I had been quoted €1300 for one off one building supplier who assured me he was the cheapest around! The scary part is he was probably right!

    A major advantage in using this system is that the logs can be 3foot long and if the diameter is not too large then, they do not have to be split. I am currently thinning the conifers and by my calculations this will be enough timber for the next 20/30years on these alone. When all is added up I expect the total expenditure to be in the region of €13,000 which isn't bad considering I had the sheds and I am not paying out for the logs! I have read so many conflicting reports at this stage, it is hard to say how much fuel it will consume or how often I will have to tend the boiler.

    All will be revealed soon and I will keep you posted!
    Regards
    Wacker
  24.  
    Hi,
    Wow
    Olwman is right about the self circulation, the ladomat for example is designed to do this. Chevk this out. Another source of cheap(ish) boilers without using the brand names is solarbayer. They do boiler + accumulator + bits at a very reasonable price - direct NOT though a couple of uk importers.
    I am hoping that soon it will be possible to get a basic wood boiler <£2000 and packaged with accumulator + bits for <£3500.Not that i'am advocating whole scale burning - the constant manta of this forum of use less in the first place should always remain the fundemental tennet of any system.
    Cheers
    Mike up North
    why are we all called mike ???
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2009 edited
     
    Hi jsav,
    No you're NOT barking!- (up the wrong tree). Although the missus may have a different opinion.
    The answer to your question about buying the stuff and fitting it yourself is YES you can do it, but only YOU can answer the question of your own plumbing skills. If you have never done any plumbing before then perhaps you ought to try something smaller and less costly first. To do the job right you will need to consider lots of factors on the design side, quite apart from the business of the plumbing itself. It's not difficult, but it does require a bit of knowledge of domestic CH and DHW supply, and it's the overall system design and layout where you should concentrate your efforts, and the potential pitfalls are many. the joining of the pipes etc is comparatively easy, but even so, the larger than normal pipe sizes can be daunting and problematic if you're a total novice. Perhaps you are reasonably skilled, in which case take it slowly, read up a lot, spend hours on the net and the phone, and be prepared for your bank balance to take a hit. Depending upon the complexity of the system; zoned heating, type of DHW supply, mains electricity failure provision, type of flue, water and drainage provision, boiler house, log store; even doing it all yourself you could easily be spending £10000+, and much, much more if you buy the top of the range Deutsche boilers.
    You are right about the plumbing trade in general, both plumbers and merchants. Their knowledge of thermal stores and wood boilers is limited at the moment, I guess it is a small market and there is enough work around without bothering to learn new skills. Which is why I suggested concentrating on the system design side. Then you can guide your plumber. I hadn't heard of any certification. Is this a House Certificate requirement? Maybe you are referring to pressurised systems? Boiler manufacturers and/or suppliers will give guidence on system set up and boiler commisioning.

    For Mike (Up North),
    Dunno, maybe we should be Mike 1, and Mike 2, ( I'll give you first shout.)

    Mike (?)
    • CommentAuthoradwindrum
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2009
     
    Mike up north is the daddy so I agree he should be No1.

    On the sizing of boilers, while I see the logic of throwing in 3 ft lengths of wood cos it saves some chopping, the extra cost for the kit is phenomenal! I paid £3500 all in for my 25kw from Kotly and Akva tank. For the several thousand extra you paid you could kick back in a hammock with a cold beer and watch someone else cut your trees! Surely the heat loss from 10000l of tank is phenomenal? although I guess its all surface area, level of insulation etc.

    Lighting the things aint a hassle at all and doesnt need to be a chore. Mine is also lit every 5 days in summer, is hot in an hour and at coldest in winter is lit every day but we have rack all insulation (house getting knocked down blah blah).
    • CommentAuthoradwindrum
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2009
     
    on the wood front, have the fear! You will fly through stuff, so go crazy with storing it up now for 2 years on, its a mistake to underestimate and prep now cos in 2 years time you will be burning young dried stuff. Your 20 acres should well keep up with you though so no worries there.
    • CommentAuthorWacker
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2009
     
    Lads
    Just realized I forgot to mention that the buffer tank was included in the 13k. I got it made in a local steel fabrication plant at a cost of €3400 and it differs little from the one Herlt were selling which would have cost €7000 + Vat +€3000 delivery. Though to be fair to Herlt they suggested doing this and insulating in the same manner as they do i.e. boxing it of in timber and filling with either sawdust or polystyrene beads. However I am going to use insulated foam which can be sprayed on in layers and will act in the same way as the lagging that comes on DHW cylinder.

    Got a reply from Lukas Korel at Atmos regarding the flue. Apart from recommending using a draught regulator I am none the wiser but I guess every chimney is different and there is no definitive answer. For DC75SE they recommend draught of the chimney 30Pa.

    Still waiting for a response to the cooling loop question but considering there are 50mm pipes leaving the boiler for 2m the decrease to 38mm to tank I'm hoping the Mikes are right on the old self circulation theory.

    Adwindrum perhaps I did overspend/oversize the system, only time will tell and if I did I'll hold my hands up.
    Roll on the winter!
    Regards
    Wacker
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJun 11th 2009
     
    Hi Wacker,
    Just a few quick thoughts on the buffer tank that you've had fabricated. I don't know why, but I'm assuming it's square shaped. I notice from your earlier post that you've purchased an expansion vessel, therefore I'm guessing you're pressurising the system. What pressure are you intending to run it? Has the buffer been pressure tested? Some welds can be susceptible to leaking. If it is a square tank, are the sides re-inforced. Sorry to sound negative Wacker but it is a huge tank and I'd hate it, ( the whole venture ) to go pear shaped for you. (No pun intended). Perhaps you've covered all this, and the fabricators are on the ball, in which case good luck.

    Mike ( 2 )
    • CommentAuthorWacker
    • CommentTimeJun 11th 2009
     
    No worries Mike she is cylindrical in shape with domed ends and, lays horizontal supported by supports underneath keep it 300mm from the floor. It has four 38mm ports 2 at top and 2 at bottom with another for a drain; there are also 4 x 15mm ports down the sides for temp/pressure gauges. It was manufactured in a proper engineering plant and had been pressured tested and guaranteed.

    Rgds
    Wacker

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