Good evening all,
Sorry to bardge in but,
Can anyone help!
Is there anyone out there who's had dealings with Eco Link Resources Ltd based in Lincolnshire. I've been trying to get this grant thing sorted and I feel like im bashing my head against a brick wall. I know I need to the grant sorted before placing an order for the boiler but which website do you go to, to apply for the grant( the one I went to through lowcarbonbuildings.org.uk) doesn't have Eco Link on there list. Is there anywhere else to go for grants?
Any comments would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Jsav.

Thanks for that Julian,
Eco Link isn't on the LCBP installers list, but the guy there insists that using him would make us eligable for a grant. He said he is registered with eca.gov.uk ( I've never heard of them and when I went into there website it seemed to be aimed at business) he gave us a user no. of 01436. (Does this mean anything to anyone!).

jsav; I'm sceptical about the whole issue of grants. I know there are folks on this site who have been successful with their applications, well done I say, but I personally gave up in the end. I just found it all too onerous and I came to the conclusion that the system is fundamentally flawed. Here's my take on it:-

1. Government sets up Quango to administer grants in order to appear green.
2. Quango makes a list of approved suppliers and installers and charges them for the priveledge of
being on that list.
3. Quango's rationale for this is to protect you the indivdual. Boiler construction and back up etc.
mmm? There is an EU standard for logwood boilers, and more likely its to help them balance their
books and, heigh-ho provide money for administering the grants.
3. Suppliers and installers need to recoup that cost and outlay, so, up their prices.
4. Said suppliers and installers, often one and the same, give you a turnkey price for the job
that reflects the £1500 grant you will receive.

Maybe I'm just a cynic but I think this limits your choice of boiler and installer, and the end result is that there are many good manufacturers and installers out there, who can't or won't pay the up front charge for what is a relatively small, (UK) market. The law of unintended consequence I believe. It may be worthwhile doing a cost comparison of going it alone with a trusted supplier and installer who are NOT on "the list" and sod the grant.
Julian touched on the subject of business grants, For these I think the rules are even more onerous requiring proof of energy saved.
Have you got that ACASO up and running yet Julian?

Mike (2)

Hi jsav,
Have you looked on www.YouGen.co.uk ? Installing Biomass in your area there is (amongst others)

MeSolar Fire & Water
The Cottage, 41 Cross O'Cliff Hill,
Lincoln LN5 8PR
Tel: 01522 520 146 / 07973 794 498, Fax: 01522 520 146
E-mail: mesolar@mac.com / matthewelkin@yahoo.com
They are not LCBP / MCS registered but as we said earlier you may be better to forget about a grant.

Julian

Hi jsav,
where are Mikes (1) and (2) when we need them? The grant website lists all the qualifying equipment. I have to say I thought to qualify under LCBP and MCS the boiler had to be gasifying (GS) so you'd need to check that. Jones Nash list price for the DC32S is £3025 and £3133 for the DC32GS. Their price for a 2000l Akvantti is £2323. The laddomat is not far short of £200 and assuming the flue is twin wall stainless its expensive stuff - something like £110 for 900mm so say £700. So your second quote seems reasonable but thedevil is in the detail.
In the absence of Mikes (1) and (2) it would also help to know about your system: you have a wet heating system presumably so you'll have one or two heating zones? Plus a circuit to your hot water cylinder - or will dhw run through a coil in the Akvaterm? As you have described it the spec very closely resembles my own system (DC25GS plus Akva 2000l)and so the thing I would really stress (and it says it very clearly so many times in this discussion) is to make sure that you include a thermostatic mixing valve (brands include Thermomatic K, ACASO) rated to work at high temps. The reason being that without this the very hot water in the top of your store will get pumped around your heating system at anything up to 95 degrees. A mixing valve uses cooler water from the return and blends the temperature down to something sensible. This conserves more of your very hot water and reduces the mixing up of the hot water in the top and cold in the bottom of the store. So just make sure whoever does it that you get one on your heating circuit(s). The other thing (and I reckon Mikes (1) and (2) might well say this if they were here 'cause they told me about it) is to avoid a bog standard pump and opt for a modulating pump such as the Grundfos Alpha (reccomended by the Energy Saving Trust no less). As the valves on your radiators close down the pump senses the change and modulates down reducing the flow - and saving a heck of a lot of energy in the process. If you got all that spec in for £7550 you'd be doing ok.
Don't worry - the Mikes will probably be onto this soon....

Hi jsav, Hi Julian,

You've just about got it sewn up Julian, and your comment, " the devil's in the detail " is certainly true. Jsav, if my latin is correct, Caveat Emptor is the right phrase. Have your potential installers done a site visit? If not take the quotes with a pinch of salt, chances are they'll miss something off the quote and then try to claw back by putting in an inferior system. Get your installer to give a breakdown of of the work he is proposing eg. safety valves, pipe bores, pumps,- (as Julian said £30 for a bog standard or about £120+ for a modulating pump), pipe insulation on completion, here again a vast difference between the mediocre and the best, flue provision, central heating controls, electrical installation, DHW provision. In a nutshell the main components you've listed are easy to price, but all the rest of the ancillary items and their associated labour can rack up the final cost, if you choose the best, and it may be the cheaper quoting installer perhaps has not thought it fully through. I noticed you were only listing a 200l expansion vessel the norm, usually is 10% of the system;
If your house is large, with the water in the boiler and pipework and radiators etc. a 200l vessel may not be big enough. Personally I'd opt for a 250l if you are using only one expansion.( more expense). Also, as Julian said there is the matter of controls, an ACASO CT or AUTOMIX 20, essential, and will set you back another £250+. On top of all this there's all the peripheral stuff, ( boiler house,- water, drainage, and power provision, inhibitors, log store and initial log supply ) To do the job right and covering all the above items, you may be looking a total installed price in excess of £16000. I was quoted £20-25000 for my own specced system. Burning wood isn't cheap.

Mike (2)

Hi jsav, Mikes (1) and (2)
er...you're not supposed to tell anyone about the trouser leg thing....

See.... I told you the Mikes would sort you out. You're now in a very good position to discuss the detail and make sure it is exactly how you need it. Mike (1)'s point about the quotes is a good one because you do get to the point of wanting to pack it in a take the easy route to an oil or gas boiler. But you're rolling now. And don't overlook as Mike says how difficult it can be even getting your two quotes. Well done.

If you need to work out about what will govern the Acaso thermo mixer valve that Mike (2) suggests - one will work to a set temperature (that you set) while another is governed by room stat type arrangement as well - they have a good website and if you call them speak good English and are helpful to boot.
Good luck.
Thanks again Mikes (1) and (2)

Hi (Mike up North)

I am installing a 25kw Atmos log boiler with Laddomat control and 1500 lt Akvaterm heat store, I also want to connect into the system a Worcester Greenstar 30 kw CDi regular gas boiler, both boilers and heat store will be open vented with a common feed and vents, could you advise on best method to connect the gas boiler into the system, I have made a proposed system design if you would care to cast your eye over it for me. PS my earlier comments were entered in the wrong forum

Hi, I am in the process of planning the installation of a wood gas boiler. My first dilemma is which boiler to go for. The three I have been looking at are the Orlan Super, Atmos GS and the Vigas. I need 25-30kW output and have already sources a 1500l accumulator and an ACASO CT for regulating my out flow temp.
I will also be installing a 20kW oil boiler as backup and initially plan to run the system open vented since the boiler house sits about 2m above the house and I do not want to have excess pressure in the system.
The boiler house is 20m from the house and I therefore have opted to keep a DHW tank in the house. How do I prevent the CH circuit from stealing heat back out of the DHW tank once the circulating temp falls below the DHW temp - I have only installed 1 flow / 1 return from the boiler house to the house.

Thanks in advance.

Hamish

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the speedy response - the flow and return pipes are 25mm o/d. I had planned to put the ACASO on the flow from the accumulator tank to take the temp down to say 65-70 degrees. I probably did not explain my DHW problem very well. I want to have mains pressure DHW so was going to install a 210l pressurised indirect cylinder - obviously I can use a 2 port valve to switch on and off DHW my dilemma is if the programmer will not know what temp the accumulator is at. I thought I could have a tank stat on the DHW and a stat on the accumulator so that the DHW 2 port only opens when the accumulator is above a certain temperature. Reading through other posts though I would still be sending relatively hot water back from the DHW and CH circuit back up to the accumulator. I suppose I could manually time DHW charging from lighting the boiler but then the system becomes a bit manual. Any thoughts would be welcome.
Regards
Hamish

Hello

I've just read most of this thread because I am considering installing a log boiler to replace the old LPG system that I have just ripped out. Loads of excellent information here, but a bit exhausting! I have a couple of questions that I hope you can help me with...

1.
Has anyone any experience with Atack boilers? I have found a local company who are offering them, looked at the website, but I haven't heard much about this make.

2.
My mains pressure is intermittent, so I plan to run my domestic hot water off a gravity tank in the roof. Do I need to heat a traditional separate hot water cylinder off the thermal store, or has anyone successfully run a gravity system through the coil in the accumulator?

All feedback gratefully recieved.

Cheers, Hap.

Hello Julian

What you say about the support being as important as the manufacturer makes a lot of sense. Just being a bit cautious before going ahead. I have arranged to visit an existing installation tomorrow, so I will see what that looks like and chat with the owner.

With the gravity DHW via a coil, I did e-mail Akvaterm and asked the question - the response was that it would work if I had enough head to overcome friction losses in the pipework. I've done some hydraulic analysis on automatic sprinkler systems, so I might try to model it on the computer and see whether it will work in theory. But what I would really like is to hear the experience of someone that has already done it successfully (or not).

I suppose I could just give it a lash and see how it goes. If it doesn't work I can either add a booster pump or rip it out and plumb in a DHW tank.

Hap.

Julian

Just had the same conversation with the installer, and I will be looking into it. Had a look at the Attack unit and it seems a decent bit of kit, so I will be getting some quotes and see where it goes from here.

Cheers, Hap.

Hi Guys,

I am nearing the end of my installation of an Atmos DC25s gasifying boiler with buffer tank.
I am finding it very hard to find a 3 way mixing valve to blend the water that flows into my house from the buffer tank. I have got a quote of €750 for it from a local plumbing suppliers here in Ireland. But they have a 4 way mixing valve for just over €100.

So my question is for someone who has plumbing experience. Could I buy the 4 way valve and put a stopper/blank on the 4th service and just use it as a 3 way valve? The plumbing specialist in the local hardware tells me that I can, but I suspect that he may be just trying to make a sale.

Any information or advice would be greaty appreciated.

Dan

Hi all,

Can anyone tell me about pressure in their Gasification boiler. I have a dc 25s with a 15ool buffer. The boiler has a 1.5 bar pressure release valve which continually drips water when the water gets to 80 degrees in top and bottom of the boiler. Plumber says to leave it to see if it will stop after a couple of burns or if it is faulty and will need to be changed.

Can you tell me what pressure is on your gague when the boiler is cold? I have mine up to about .5 bar of pressure. When the boiler heats up to over 70 degrees, the pressure goes up to about 1.2 bar. When the heat goes anything above 70, the release valve starts to drip.

Am I putting too much pressure into the system before I start the boiler?? Or do I just have a faulty release valve???

Dan