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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    Yes - there are no tariffs for domestic yet as these won't be payable until October 2012 in any case.

    Is a RHPP (Reneweable Heat Premium Payment) of £1250 enough to incentivise someone to install a GSHP in the meantime? Or £300 for solar? I don't think so.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJustin
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    It's not enough incentive for die-hard gas burners, but given there really are those who installed before anyway, then statistically any incentive must pull a few more of the fence-sitters on board.
  1.  
    The report claims that although wood burning is recognised to be dirtier than gas it is cleaner than oil. Gov research details woodchip combustion in modern boiler creates PM pollution 60-80 times higher than equivalent gas and 6-12 times higher than oil.The intention to limit PM to 30g/Gj in the future and the comment that they consider most wood combustion will be outside urban areas does not embrace the reality of the health impact from deliberate air quality degradation.
    They use the phrase "need to prove sustainability for fuel supply" but waste wood burners admit they are competing with panel manufacturers and animal bedding suppliers etc. Where is the joined up thinking and due diligence in subsidising diversion of a valuable resource from superior clean use. Sustainable?
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    Well, Brian, like I said on another thread, I've given up believing in fairies and I might as well add: expecting joined-up thinking from any government.

    And just when I was considering using the vast area of flat roof on the pre-war extension for either pv or solar! Suppose I'll just have to do it for the savings and forget any offsetting of cost unless I consider waiting for another year.
    • CommentAuthorjanzon
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    Well, after months of planning and an installer on stand by, there's £12k+ that will stay firmly in my pocket.
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    janzon, is that for a GSHP?
    • CommentAuthormartint
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    Looks as if the money will be staying in my pocket as well for the next couple of years at least. I can't understand how, assuming that there was already a wealth of information sitting within DECC, that it is going to take a further 2 years research to put the 'finishing touches' to the domestic scheme. Unless of course it is cost saving - keeping the money in their pockets - surely not! So much for the 'greenest government ever' - Labour were at least prepared to bite the bullet. As others have commented, offering £600 towards spending £10,000-£20,000 with so much uncertainty is not much of an incentive.
    I pity those installers and manufacturers who have invested in MCS certification in preparation for this scheme going ahead - they must be gutted. No doubt the October 2012 date will come and go without a decision being made which will allow us to invest with certainty.
    • CommentAuthorjanzon
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011 edited
     
    Posted By: tedjanzon, is that for a GSHP?


    No, gasification log boiler with TS
    • CommentAuthorGavin_A
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    am I getting this right?

    upon election pretty much the first thing this government did was to scrap the last year of the low carbon building programme, which offered grants of £400 for domestic solar water heating installations. Their justification being that these installations would be eligible for the renewable heat incentive when it was introduced in April 2011.

    Now they're putting back the introduction of RHI for domestic installations until 2012, and appear to be putting in place an interim small grants scheme instead, which they still won't be announcing the details of until May.

    utter shambles from 'the greenest government ever'

    tbh, if anyone fancies putting together a consortium of installers / people who've already had MCS certified heat installations done on the basis they would be eligible for RHI to sue the government, they could count me in.
    • CommentAuthorGavin_A
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: ted</cite>Yes - there are no tariffs for domestic yet as these won't be payable until October 2012 in any case.

    Is a RHPP (Reneweable Heat Premium Payment) of £1250 enough to incentivise someone to install a GSHP in the meantime? Or £300 for solar? I don't think so.</blockquote>
    ted - are these actual figures? if so can you point me in the direction of your source please as I can't find anything. thanks.
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    They are at the very bottom of this page:

    http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/news/PN2011_023/PN2011_023.aspx

    under the heading 3. Table highlighting likely levels of support for RHI Premium Payments:
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011 edited
     
    With no idea what is happening on the domestic side, will this delay installations or would people just get on a do it.

    I notice there is quite a bit on the biomass supply and traceabilty, that will force the price up of the feedstock.
  2.  
    Posted By: SteamyTea

    I notice there is quite a bit on the biomass supply and traceabilty, that will force the price up of the feedstock.


    Forests are already in strong demand with prices in excess of 10% over the asking price. Have just had my offer on 350 acres rejected so may have to find a few extra pennies as the commercial RHI will certainly take off.
    • CommentAuthormartint
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    SteamyTea - whereabouts have you seen reference to traceability? I'm looking at domestic, so this won't directly affect me - but if and when I do go ahead I was hoping to supply from my own woodland. Scuppered (again) if I have to buy in from a 'traceable' source!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    Schedule 2 (page 30)
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    Posted By: renewablejohncommercial RHI will certainly take off

    May be better investing in a company that already supplies it.
    • CommentAuthorGavin_A
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: SteamyTea</cite>With no idea what is happening on the domestic side, will this delay installations or would people just get on a do it.
    </blockquote>
    under the REAL scheme we're required to produce accurate estimates of financial performance for any systems we quote for.

    I can't see how it is possible to meet this criteria in the current situation. We're therefore not even advertising the solar water heating side of the business and pretty much only doing solar water heating installations when a customer really insists, and is happy to take the risk of RHI not happening.

    I don't know if anyone's collecting figures, but I'd think most solar companies have done what we've done and simply focussed on solar PV and left solar water heating on the back burner.

    Interesting that they've excluded ASHP from RHI for the big installations, but included it in the initial pilot funding for domestic - looks like they've listened to some extent and decided they need more data on ASHP's performance which they hope to gain from this first phase. Shame solar water heating's had to get caught up in this.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    Yep, I was happy to plonk a few £k on an ASHP (with a few sqm of solar thermal) while we redid our kitchen, though I really want ECO-CUTE and Sanyo's is not MCS approved yet anyway so far as I can see. I think it would have cut our footprint a little immediately (even though we are on the gas grid) and will improve as he grid gets greener...

    Good job I didn't take the risk of being an early adopter this time.

    The only really 'green' aspect of this seems to be the lack of understanding of the psyches of the end users...

    Rgds

    Damon
    • CommentAuthorsune
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    For the ones we are doing there is generally financial reward for our clients - ie lower fuel bills. The biggest hurdle is the initial outlay for materials and labour - which the RHI doesn't really help towards anyway.
    In which case perhaps a better model than giving away cash would have been 0% interest (linked to inflation I guess) loans for qualifiying projects to help spread the cost and stop them taking out expensive bank loans?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2011
     
    Schedule 1,(k)
    'where the plant is a heat pump, evidence which demonstrates to the Authority's satisfaction, that the heat pump meets a coefficient of performance of at least 2.9'.

    Think that excludes ASHP and most GSHP (unless they are talking maximum performance), better go WSHP as they are about the best.
    • CommentAuthorjanzon
    • CommentTimeMar 11th 2011
     
    I am a little bit confused about the criteria for a non-domestic installation. Part of my house is used to run a long established business for which I pay non-domestic business rates.
    The rest of the property is used as living accommodation, not so much living above the shop, more a case of behind it.
    Any heat produced by my proposed boiler installation would heat my workspace, the customer area in the front shop as well as our home.

    Would I, or could I, be considered non-domestic for the purposes of RHI?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeMar 11th 2011
     
    I think you would have to pay VAT and possibly 'benefit in kind' on the heat generated by your business. Ask an accountant.
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeMar 11th 2011
     
    janzon, I think possibly you could get a % of the RHI now. It depends on scale.

    p11 of the RHI doc says:

    "For example, a house where someone works or runs a business from home would be considered domestic whereas a house converted to be a shop or bed & breakfast would be considered non-domestic and could receive RHI support."

    Paying business rates would seem to be a good indicator.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeMar 14th 2011
     
    October 2012 seems a long way off. Anyone think the government will renege on the July 2009 qualifying date by then?
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeMar 14th 2011
     
    Given recent experience of back-tracking, it's a significant possibility.

    This is an unintended consequence of treating other early adopters badly (for relatively little monetary saving). Trust is an expensive commodity as I pointed out to DECC to point out to the Treasury.

    Rgds

    Damon
    • CommentAuthorpmusgrove
    • CommentTimeMar 14th 2011
     
    Nothing new in this world. I am procuring the build of a new care home, flats and offices on a site where some sort of grant was given in the early 1970s to install a CHP plant for the care home that was built on the siteat that time. Folklore has it that it was used for a couple of years but then wasn't maintained so they installed a couple of gas boilers instead for the care home and 60 flats. So .. with gas at less than 3p per kWh I am being encouraged to ship wood a couple of hundred miles into the middle of one of the largest cities in the country with the consequent environmental costs. I won;t do it! Meanwhile out in the country and off mains water let alone gas I am trying to build a "utility free" house. I have tried to get as much insulation as is economically viable but will still need energy for DHW and lighting. Solar thermal wins on the DHW, PV is good now that we have the FITs in place but why not encourage me to save on the nation's elec bill by subsidising a GSHP? Of course the answer is to wack the cost of gas up to a realistic level and let the market decide..
  3.  
    I am off the gas network and most use oil locally. I have gone down down the GSHP path a little too far to turn back now. I will install without the RHI but it would have helped with the slightly larger mortgage!!!! If I am understanding it correctly my only option will be to fight for a part of the funding until the end of 2012 and then see what happens? A complete joke in my opinion,
    Gusty.
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeMar 14th 2011
     
    If you go for an MCS install you will be eligible for a "likely" £1250 RHPP lump sum from July. Then you will have to wait until October 2012 to get anything else and how much that will be hasn't been decided yet.
    • CommentAuthorwaddonvale
    • CommentTimeMar 14th 2011
     
    Will someone please explain in simple, easy to grasp, terms what payments will be made under the Commercial RHI. If, for example, I can demonstrate by way of a SAP calculation that I have a space and water heating demand of 30kW/hour and I install a biomass boiler that has a nominal rated output of 34kW to satisfy that demand what payment will I receive. Is it 30 x 1314 x .076p = £2996, which seems quite generous, or have I misunderstood the means of calculation?
    •  
      CommentAuthorted
    • CommentTimeMar 14th 2011
     
    The Tier 1 threshold is based on the capacity of the boiler.

    So if you have a 34kW boiler you would get paid the Tier 1 tariff for 34 x 1314 = 44,676 kWh x 7.6p = £3395 per year.

    For anything you generate above 44,676 kWh in the same year you would only be paid at the Tier 2 rate of 1.9p per kWh.

    You would need an MCS install including a heat meter.
   
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