Mon, 18 May 2026 03:46:43 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105480#Comment_105480 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105480#Comment_105480 Fri, 18 Mar 2011 10:54:56 +0000 tony
Ideally I would like some for typical Victorian terrace, 1960's semi and a new three bed house built to satisfy current building regs

thanks -- answers in W/m2/y please]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105523#Comment_105523 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105523#Comment_105523 Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:14:11 +0000 DamonHD
I have numbers for my '60s end-of-terrace timber frame before and after improvement, but the last few winters are going to skew numbers a little. You might want to normalise by HDD.

Rgds

Damon]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105574#Comment_105574 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105574#Comment_105574 Sat, 19 Mar 2011 08:19:17 +0000 SteamyTea Posted By: DamonHD1 kWh of gas for DHW/CH is nothing like 1kWh of electricity
Not sure I understand why they are not the same. If they are both converted to heat and system efficiencies are taken into account then they are the same, cost is a different matter.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105583#Comment_105583 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105583#Comment_105583 Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:50:55 +0000 jamesingram http://bit.ly/cPSttK #info #green #building
might be something in here

ST -i think Damon might be think of CO2/kw differnece between grid electric and grid gas]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105584#Comment_105584 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105584#Comment_105584 Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:54:49 +0000 jamesingram http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Publication-Download/?p=1&pid=249

page 1 offers pie chart of energy usage brake down of 3 types but not kW/m2/y]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105585#Comment_105585 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105585#Comment_105585 Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:56:09 +0000 DamonHD
Electricity is a far far higher grade of energy than gas/heat. Mixing them is apples and oranges.

Rgds

Damon]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105586#Comment_105586 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105586#Comment_105586 Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:02:28 +0000 jamesingram http://www.ukstudentpassivhausconference.org.uk/uploads/4/7/2/1/4721930/paschal_volney.pdf

page 6

typical space heating demands

pre 1945 250 kWh/m2/y
1965-76 200 kwh/m2/y
2000- 150 kWh/m2/y]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105592#Comment_105592 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105592#Comment_105592 Sat, 19 Mar 2011 13:28:58 +0000 SteamyTea Posted By: DamonHDMixing them is apples and oranges.

I know what you mean as we 'obey the laws of thermodynamics' in this forum, but it is possible to to design and run a gas heat pump, we had a gas fridge in our caravan when I was a kid, there the term 'avec vous une T-Piece' comes from, it was so we could cook and cool at the same time.

A Watt is the product of the force required to move a kilogram one meter (a Joule) in one second. 3600 Watts is a kWh, it is just a descriptor of something real and is fuel independent. It is why it is used.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105596#Comment_105596 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105596#Comment_105596 Sat, 19 Mar 2011 13:45:00 +0000 jamesingram https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105613#Comment_105613 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105613#Comment_105613 Sat, 19 Mar 2011 18:59:12 +0000 tony https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105637#Comment_105637 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=105637#Comment_105637 Sun, 20 Mar 2011 08:31:27 +0000 jamesingram looking at the case study for a solid wall semi ( probably 1960-) it gives a figure of
Space Heat Demand : 401 kWh/m2 yr
so not sure how typicial the other table they quote is ? They do seem a little low to me

it gives a resource link of "Table extracted from Kyoto in home (www.kyotoinhome.com)"]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107001#Comment_107001 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107001#Comment_107001 Tue, 05 Apr 2011 11:17:07 +0100 qeipl
Edit: but some of that electricity goes into the workshop so maybe 70kWh/m^2/year for the house.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107038#Comment_107038 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107038#Comment_107038 Tue, 05 Apr 2011 22:13:04 +0100 pmcc 89kWh/m2/year]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107048#Comment_107048 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107048#Comment_107048 Wed, 06 Apr 2011 00:36:07 +0100 tony
Anyone know what a typical house built to current building regs would be?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107062#Comment_107062 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107062#Comment_107062 Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:04:00 +0100 qeipl Energy performance certificate shows "Approximate current energy use....98kWh/m^2"
Energy efficiency rating C72
Environmental impact rating B90]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107074#Comment_107074 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107074#Comment_107074 Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:24:54 +0100 tony https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107091#Comment_107091 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107091#Comment_107091 Wed, 06 Apr 2011 13:50:04 +0100 qeipl I've tried digging through the SAP calculations to find out what proportion is heating but can't understand the workings and have come up with figures as diverse as 40 and 104kWh/m^2.
Sorry.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107112#Comment_107112 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107112#Comment_107112 Wed, 06 Apr 2011 18:27:54 +0100 jamesingram 0.36 kW grid electric = 1 kW of primary energy

so UK grid electric x 2.78 = primary energy usage

( please let me know if you think this conversion figure is incorrect )]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107115#Comment_107115 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107115#Comment_107115 Wed, 06 Apr 2011 18:51:01 +0100 DamonHD
FWIW I think that anything near 3 is probably about right for various reasons.

Rgds

Damon]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107120#Comment_107120 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=107120#Comment_107120 Wed, 06 Apr 2011 20:08:02 +0100 SteamyTea
http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/statistics/publications/dukes/dukes.aspx]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109462#Comment_109462 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109462#Comment_109462 Sun, 15 May 2011 13:40:47 +0100 jamesingram had this info in it for kWh/m2 yr , delivered energy + electricity, domestic usage

average stock - 278 , DTI 2003 figure

odpm ADL1-2002 - 130 , - 209? estimate of real use by AECB
odpm ADL1-2006 - 99 , - 183 ? ""
CSH1 - 183
CSH2 - 135
CSH3 - 84 AECB silver
CSH4 - 38 AECB gold
CSH5 - 38]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109466#Comment_109466 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109466#Comment_109466 Sun, 15 May 2011 15:54:26 +0100 tony https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109469#Comment_109469 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109469#Comment_109469 Sun, 15 May 2011 16:05:38 +0100 jamesingram https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109471#Comment_109471 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109471#Comment_109471 Sun, 15 May 2011 17:15:39 +0100 tony https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109474#Comment_109474 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109474#Comment_109474 Sun, 15 May 2011 17:35:28 +0100 SteamyTea Of which 23 is DHW and 33 is all the rest.
That puts me at about CSH 3.5 (would that be silvered up gold or silvered down gold?)
Obviously no heating last week, going to try and find the data for that now.

1987 built terrace.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109485#Comment_109485 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109485#Comment_109485 Sun, 15 May 2011 21:18:32 +0100 jamesingram i think this 2006 table is described as a AECB proposed pathway to zero carbon homes via CSH and has been replaced by http://www.aecb.net/PDFs/carbonlite/AECB_VOL3_EnergyStandard_V6FINAL.pdf
see page 3

The passivhaus 15 kWh/m2 yr space heating and 120 kWh/m2 yr primary energy target seems odd to me ,
I presume its the builidng fabric and space heating area that PH is really interested in , and designed to tackle.
Other energy use can be dealt with via none construction based method; efficient appliances , low energy lighting , Solar thermal , PV etc.

Not sure why the 120 target though ? my flat averages 90 , and its just a basic 1950s masonette with cavity fill and some loft insulation and CFL/LED bulbs. Perhaps its for commercial properties ?
The AECB gold target of 15 kWh/m2 yr for space heating 58 kWh/m2 yr for all primary energy usage is more understandable .]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109553#Comment_109553 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109553#Comment_109553 Mon, 16 May 2011 14:13:02 +0100 Paul in Montreal Posted By: jamesingramNot sure why the 120 target though ? my flat averages 90This is primary energy - so if you're using electricity, then the amount delivered to you is approximately 1/3 of this value as the other 2/3 is wasted at the fossil-fuel burning powerstation etc. Of course, since the quota for space heating is rather low, you can't just use gas and still come in at 120kWh/m2/yr.

Paul in Montreal.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109559#Comment_109559 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109559#Comment_109559 Mon, 16 May 2011 16:26:20 +0100 MarkBennett
However, this still leaves a substantial amount of primary energy for other uses (lighting, MVHR fans, fridges, freezers, washing machines etc.). Once these are all scaled up to primary energy they use a surprising amount. However, the PassivHaus Primary Energy target is still too easy to hit and should really be lower.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109565#Comment_109565 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109565#Comment_109565 Mon, 16 May 2011 17:16:57 +0100 SteamyTea Chart shows Night and Day electric usage (E7) and temperature.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109574#Comment_109574 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=7131&Focus=109574#Comment_109574 Mon, 16 May 2011 19:28:24 +0100 jamesingram
that was my thought also, why so high ?]]>