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General: sealing expansion gaps in oak frames

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1 to 19 of 19

  1.  
    • CommentAuthorbens
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2011
     
    So I went for the oak frames extension - now have up to 5mm air gaps forming in the joints to the outside so can clearly see the daylight from the inside in almost every joint. Air source heat pump and Jaga low H20 radiators completly useless as I am trying to heat the entire country. Company that provided the frame said it could take 8 years for the frame to settle and had no great ideas about sealing these gaps. Builder says not his problem as its natural movement which you always get in oak frames. Any ideas highly appreciated on how to most efficiently fill these gaps most effectively - I appreciate it may need to be redone in a year or so if it continues to move. Thanks
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2011 edited
     
    Did no one tell you to expect this, Ben?
    • CommentAuthorbens
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2011
     
    no they did not! builder and architect competent but not efficiency wise and I was working abroad so could not be on site much to manage. So for example they put in old style locks on the door so I have two inch long holes in the door frame to the outside! despite all the time and effort I put in to educate them on the solar - back boiler - ASHP HW/CH system I spent a fortune on and the fact I needed a highly insulated property they just did the normal and I am now having to retro fix it. F'ing anoying!
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2011
     
    We have decorative oak beams that have moved 15mm over 5 years.
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2011
     
    That's it, Colin, cheer him up! :confused: :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2011
     
    Oh dear, Ben, don't know what to suggest for the best because as Cwatters' states it probably hasn't stopped moving yet. Until it does it looks as if it's going to be a series of progressive bodges until a permanent fix is practicable. The only immediate solution I could suggest would be low-expansion foam, which is easily dig-outable, to fill the gaps. Can't see anything more permanent working. It would overcome the immediate problem ref the efficiency of the other items you refer to. Then invite the architect and builder round for drinks and fill every one of their orifices with the stuff.
    • CommentAuthorTimber
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2011
     
    Green oak frames move. A LOT. They should have told you that.

    Cracks, fissures, joints and gaps will all open up, unless the frame is of a VERY high standard. Even then fissures and cracks will still form.

    8 - 10 years drying time sounds about right for a large section green oak structure.

    With green oak buildings, maintaining air and moisture tightness can only be achieved with great design. Mastic or other sealants will work, but as it keeps moving, these will need to be re-done.

    I can provide some more info tomorrow (a bit tired to give a real in-depth response).

    If you provide some pictures of the sorts of gaps you are dealing with will help to determine what the best course of action will be.

    Timber
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2011 edited
     
    Rather than use something that 'sticks' to the timber, can you wedge a tube into it. I would recommend silicone as it is inert and flexible.
    http://www.silex.co.uk/silicone_tubing_information.html
    • CommentAuthorPeter_S
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2011
     
    Pictures would be good to see what the issues are but all green oak structures need to be detailed to accommodate movement without leaving openings to the outside. Its not an easy ask but it can be minimised with care.
    I would suggest trying polyrod seals or compriband tapes which can be compressed into the gaps and will expand as they open (+/- 15mm is not impossible to deal with). The fissures are harder as you can only really react to them after they occur but relying on a single lump of green oak between inside and out is always a risky move.
    • CommentAuthorbens
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2011
     
    thanks for these comments. I am sorry I cannot work out how to add pics.

    Peter_S I like the idea of polyrod seals but when I google it I dont get anything useful. Could you point me in the right direction on where to source them?

    Many thanks all
    • CommentAuthorbens
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2011
     
    Steamytea thanks for the link, the silex looks interesting. I am thinking to pack out the gaps with that or the polyrod seals (which I assume are the same/similar) and use mastic to seal the internal and external faces. In time and when the expansion has finished I can remove the mastic and replace with something more traditional like a burnt sand mastic.

    Thanks all for your help, I will know better next time!

    Ben
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2011
     
    Burnt sand mastic is NOT flexible and goes rock-hard in time.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2011
     
    Posted By: bens
    I like the idea of polyrod seals but when I google it I dont get anything useful. Could you point me in the right direction on where to source them?

    Compressible, expandable foam in metre lengths or on a roll are widely available. They are really handy for an initial "fill" for instance when fitting hardwood skirtings onto an old irregular surface, I use them a lot. They are available in lots of different forms and thicknesses For one closed cell constructional version try " FOSROC expandafoam" often used in large building projects. Insert them and then top off with a flexible sealant.
    Mike,
  14.  
    It may sound rough and ready but compressed newspaper is a cheap and effective solution until things settle down. You can always push a bit more in as required. If you are worried about aesthetics then get a bit of dry oak to match and fix it across the gap you have filled with newspaper. Our green oak framed garden room was built about 9 years ago and is a superb living space. We have used the newspaper trick in the eaves but the main problems have occurred on the (dried oak) doors which are wide and continually swell and contract with the weather. All the glass was fixed on the outside of the frames using dry oak framing and neoprene seals. Despite misgivings we have had no problems with this method of fixing the glass
    • CommentAuthorPeter_S
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2011
     
    bens

    polyrod supplier uk
    http://www.celltex.co.uk/content/view/31/84/
    • CommentAuthorbens
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2011
     
    thanks Peter
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeJun 8th 2011
     
    There were a numberof compressible foam seal suppliers at ecobuild. Dafa and iso-chemie 'iso-bloco one' were the ones I picked guff up from. http://iso-chemie.co.uk/ Dafa don't seem to have a UK dstributor yet (which is a pity as they have good stuff).
    • CommentAuthorbens
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2011
     
    thanks Wookie, we are starting remedial work today and going to try out a few different approaches and see what works. As every joint needs work there is plenty of scope for trial and probably error. Live and learn
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeJun 23rd 2011
     
    Hi bens,

    please post your thoughts and results of the different methods.

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