Green Building Forum - LENR produces 100's of kW Sun, 12 Apr 2026 04:31:19 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=121105#Comment_121105 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=121105#Comment_121105 Sat, 29 Oct 2011 09:55:12 +0100 CWatters
Yesterday an Italian, a Mr Rossi, claimed to demo a LENR (aka cold fusion) reactor producing several hundred kW for many hours. The demo wasn't intended to prove anything to the world at large but was intended to convince a "secret" paying customer.

http://pesn.com/2011/10/28/9501940_1_MW_E-Cat_Test_Successful/

Quotes:

"It ran for 5.5 hours producing 470 kW"

"That's half the rated capacity, but it is still a major accomplishment.. "

"Radiation measurements were taken by Dr. Bianchini David, from the University of Bologna. He said no extraneous radiation was detected at any time emanating from the reaction chambers,.."

"Rossi has been very picky about who he lets in; Enrico Billi, a nuclear physicist and friend of Rossi's, who is presently living in China and helping to open doors there for this technology; Professor Christos Stremmenos, from the University of Bologna, who told me all about his theory of how the technology works; Pierre Clauzon, nuclear engineering professor from France, who told me about several theoretical physicists trying to understand cold fusion in general and the E-Cat in particular; Uzikova Irina, a nuclear plant designer from Russia; Stefan Heglesson, representing a Swedish interest in the technology; Loris Ferrari, Associate Professor of Condensed Matter Physics from the University of Bologna.."

"Probably the biggest opening for skeptics will be the continually running genset that is probably rated for 500 kW"

My comments:

Still can't decide if this is a scam or not. It's certainly not been proved beyond reasonable doubt but some very credible people have seen this and other demonstrations and they appear convinced. Time will tell.]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=121106#Comment_121106 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=121106#Comment_121106 Sat, 29 Oct 2011 10:14:08 +0100 Joiner
And no, this post isn't about Lovelock, it's an illustrative example, it's about keeping an open mind. :wink:]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=121112#Comment_121112 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=121112#Comment_121112 Sat, 29 Oct 2011 10:54:49 +0100 JSHarris
If Rossi has discovered a new principle, then the science behind it needs to be independently reviewed and replicated. This need have no impact on his ownership of the IPR (at least in the Western world), would prove or disprove his theory as to where any additional energy is coming from and open the door for customers to come flooding to him if he's proved to be correct.

This latter point is the root of my scepticism. If he's right, then letting academic institutions independently peer review his science can do him nothing but good. If he's scamming, then allowing peer review would show him up and have him pilloried, or even arrested for fraud. I'm inherently suspicious of any scientist or engineer that does not allow their theory to be properly tested by others, and Rossi seems to fall well and truly into that camp at the moment. His track record of scamming people in the past doesn't help, either.]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=121142#Comment_121142 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=121142#Comment_121142 Sat, 29 Oct 2011 18:33:06 +0100 CWatters LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=121147#Comment_121147 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=121147#Comment_121147 Sat, 29 Oct 2011 19:04:01 +0100 JSHarris
This is the reason that many products are actually placed on the market bearing the "patent pending" mark; it informs everyone that patent protection is in place from the filed date (assuming the patent is finally approved).

There is no reason whatsoever for Rossi not to reveal all to his patent agent, as like every other lawyer the patent agent is obliged, by law, to observe client confidentiality and cannot divulge any information prior to the filing date.

All told Rossi is creating scepticism by his secretive approach, which, if his principle does have some merit, seems counter productive.]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=138628#Comment_138628 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=138628#Comment_138628 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 23:23:27 +0000 neelpeel
LENR-CANR.org website has a couple of telling comments -
"Unfortunately, this test was marred by problems that made it impossible to accurately determine how much energy was produced. Peak power was nominally 8 kW but the instruments were so imprecise it might have been lower or much higher, perhaps 10 kW. Problems included: poorly placed instruments; the arrangement of the outlet hose that prevented accurate independent verification of temperature and flow rates; critical parameters such as flow rates not instrumented or recorded; and an instrument that was not set to record electronically, even though it would have taken only a moment to insert an SD card and begin recording. Critical temperature and flow data that should have been electronically recorded every minute had to be manually written down by Lewan. He was only able to read the instruments every 10 or 15 minutes, which left large gaps in the data.

These problems could have been fixed at in a few hours, at minimal expense. The test could easily have been arranged to answer most skeptical objections. All of these problems were anticipated because they were present in previous tests. Experts advised Rossi how to fix them in the weeks leading up to the test, but he ignored this advice."

"...the company is capitalized at €200 million, which includes €100 million to be paid in as royalties, presumably to Rossi."

Taking both the above points together...if you were trying to increase the value of your company surely you would do what you could to improve the experiments to silence your detractors and further prove your design.

My instinct told me that this guy must have had dodgy dealing of some sort before so I turned to Wikipedia (source of all knowledge)...low and behold the guy has indeed has previous failed businesses, charges for fraud and has spent time in jail (acquitted some years later).

I'm pretty sure we won't see any useable science coming from this guy.]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=138632#Comment_138632 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=138632#Comment_138632 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 00:10:43 +0000 CWatters
Other groups believed to be working on LENR include the folowing. I can't vouch for any of them!

AmpEnergo http://ampenergo.com/
Star Scientific http://www.starscientific.com.au/
Defkalion http://www.defkalion-energy.com/
Lattice Energy http://lattice-energy.blogspot.com/ (set up by Lewis Larsen?)
Brillouin Energy Corporation http://www.brillouinenergy.com/
Energetics Technology http://www.energeticstech.com/]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=138662#Comment_138662 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=138662#Comment_138662 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 10:38:31 +0000 fostertom LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=138675#Comment_138675 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=138675#Comment_138675 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 13:16:40 +0000 djh
http://www.wgr.org/ ?
http://www.abbreviations.com/LWSR ?
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/LSMR ?

How about
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/sensors/PhySen/docs/LENR_at_GRC_2011.pdf
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/reports/SSC-SD-Refereed-Journal-Articles.shtml]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=138677#Comment_138677 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=138677#Comment_138677 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 13:31:32 +0000 CWatters Posted By: djhfostertom wrote:
How about
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/sensors/PhySen/docs/LENR_at_GRC_2011.pdf" rel="nofollow" >http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/sensors/PhySen/docs/LENR_at_GRC_2011.pdf

Thanks, not seen that one before.]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=139923#Comment_139923 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=139923#Comment_139923 Sun, 18 Mar 2012 18:26:11 +0000 marktime
http://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com.es/2012/03/sinking-of-e-cat.html]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=139925#Comment_139925 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=139925#Comment_139925 Sun, 18 Mar 2012 18:27:55 +0000 Joiner ]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=139935#Comment_139935 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=139935#Comment_139935 Sun, 18 Mar 2012 19:47:33 +0000 SteamyTea ]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=139936#Comment_139936 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=139936#Comment_139936 Sun, 18 Mar 2012 19:54:44 +0000 JSHarris LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=140065#Comment_140065 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=140065#Comment_140065 Mon, 19 Mar 2012 17:38:57 +0000 CWatters
http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/03/an-inspector-calls-on-rossi/

The following incident report was made on March 1 by a James Stokes:

I spoke to Dr Rossi concerning the construction and operation of his E-cat device. He stated the active ingredients are powdered nickel and a tablet containing a compound which releases hydrogen gas during the process. The output thermal energy is six times the electrical energy input. He acknowledged that no nuclear reactions occur during the process and that only low energy photons in the energy range 50-100 keV occur within the device. There are no radiation readings above background when the device is in operation. Since the device is not a reactor, the NRC does not have jurisdiction. Since there is no radioactive materials used in the construction and no radioactive waste is generated by it, the State of Florida, Bureau of Radiation Control has no jurisdiction. Currently, all production, distribution and use of these devices is overseas. Dr Rossi has arranged to meet with Underwriter Laboratories (UL) to seek approval for manufacturing in the United States. I thanked Dr Rossi for his time meeting with me.


Some of that appears to contradict what Rossi had either said or implied. If I remember correctly Rossi said in a radio interview or webcast that gamma rays had been detected. Is that possible if "no nuclear reactions occur"?

Back in January he gave people the impression prototypes had already been submitted for UL Approval. Now that could have been done abroad but why do that if you, your company and your factory (which also has to be UL inspected) is being set up in the USA? How can you be well into the process of setting up an automated factory in the USA if "all production, distribution and use of these devices is overseas". It all makes very little sense.]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=141213#Comment_141213 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=141213#Comment_141213 Sat, 31 Mar 2012 10:48:02 +0100 CWatters
http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1433866

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1433865]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=141231#Comment_141231 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=141231#Comment_141231 Sat, 31 Mar 2012 13:18:34 +0100 Joiner
Doubt whether many on here would be prepared to spend the 90 minutes needed to take in both presentations and the interesting Q&A session at the end of the second presentation, which is actually the first of the links you've given above.

Does make you wonder how much lobbying against funding for LENR has been going on by the fusion boys. $22bn worth of vested interest there!]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=141282#Comment_141282 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=141282#Comment_141282 Sun, 01 Apr 2012 08:52:21 +0100 CWatters LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=141286#Comment_141286 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=141286#Comment_141286 Sun, 01 Apr 2012 09:15:07 +0100 Joiner ]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=141389#Comment_141389 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=141389#Comment_141389 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 16:17:43 +0100 TimSmall Posted By: Joiner
Does make you wonder how much lobbying against funding for LENR has been going on by the fusion boys. $22bn worth of vested interest there!

Not much lobbying I would think (having met a couple of them).]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=141393#Comment_141393 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=141393#Comment_141393 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 16:33:03 +0100 Joiner LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=141395#Comment_141395 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=141395#Comment_141395 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 16:57:08 +0100 TimSmall
Are the photons emitted gamma rays or not? Well if we assume his device does what it's beginning to look like it does, then that would seem to be a matter of opinion - there's no completely fixed definition of what a gamma ray is, and there are plenty of other sources for photons in the energy range mentioned in the CERN talk (I used to write control software for a >1MeV accelerator - used to make silicon chips), and there are a few theories for how such a device might work, but no one really knows - so he could reasonably say that he doesn't think they're gammas (even if he believes that they are).

Incidentally, not really a packed lecture theatre for the CERN LENR talk was it? I'm pretty sure I watched Tarantino's Jackie Brown in the same room to a larger audience about ten years ago.

I think I'm about 80% convinced that Rossi's device is real (although my Physics stopped at A-level, BTW). If so, it'll be nice to see all those people that have continued to invest in the coal, and petroleum etc. lose their shirt. OTOH, that probably includes a chunk of my pension, and for that matter renewables won't do very well out of it either.]]> LENR produces 100's of kW https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=141397#Comment_141397 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=8030&Focus=141397#Comment_141397 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 18:17:04 +0100 Joiner
Like all lecture halls I've ever been in, everyone was probably packed into the back stalls! :wink: :bigsmile:

The Q&A session had some questions coming from about the fourth or fifth row back. Someone was having a real go, although he was parried on each point.

I thought it was well presented, despite the effort of cutting through the accents, and more or less followable thanks to the excellent slides and related summaries of points made.]]>