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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2011
     
    Why is everyone moaning so much? We still have Feed In Tarrifs, the returns from investment in solar pv are still ridiculously high - where else can you get 7 to 9%?

    The system is all in place, yes there is no longer a "gold rush", but installing solar pv is still a solid viable sensible thing to do, and it is green.

    Just because the FIT rate has been cut from a stupidly high level down to a high level does not mean that the industry is dead, sure it will stall a bit but in the long run we have to get to a place where there are no subsidies.

    Why not get more efficient. My favourite installer was taking two days per system this time last year and I am sure that the teams could fit two systems in a day (they went home shortly after lunch after a late start and went off to collect materials during the job).

    Gold rush over, can we get on with it now please. I would have no hesitation in investing in another system to charge my electric car and send surplus to the grid.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2011
     
    The primary moan as I see it was the way in which the cuts were handled. FiTs clearly have a reducing element in them, as it should be, but twice pulling the rug at very short notice from underneath a new industry is very damaging.

    I'm not even in FiTs to make money, but I've (probably) lost an entire installation because of the damage caused by the hamfistedness (and poor arithmetic, and Treasury shackles, and lamentably low ambition in terms of target GWp installed). That's a 100% loss to me on that install through no fault of mine.

    Rgds

    Damon
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2011
     
    I'm sure some social housing rent-a-roof projects must run to a £1million or more. Would you bet that much while the consultation process was still open or wait until March or April or whenever the government fixes the new rate? For the sake if a few months income (in the winter) I'd wait. I'm sure the installers can find other work to do meanwhile.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2011
     
    PS: Is the price of a 3-4KW system falling faster than the new income it generates?
    • CommentAuthorPeter_S
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2011
     
    the new fits price is still just about affordable to borrow money on for the install. If you have cash in the bank it is still pretty much the safest guaranteed investment available. Just because the second hand car salesmen/double glazing pirates that moved over to make a huge amount of cash from the rent-a-roof schemes will no longer be in the market does not mean its not viable for a householder. But it does mean that those without savings are unlikely to even consider it.
  1.  
    positives..
    The good thing about the fits rate drop is that the rip off companies with salesmen and energy showrooms and marketing in every shopping centre will probably be forced out of the market,after April, which should then revert to Electricians installing PV as a part of their business. As a guide my nearest biggest three competitors are a conservatory company, an energy company which are less than Ideal , and a sales company that used to sell telephones. All just use subbies on fixed prices and the standard of work is appalling.

    negatives...
    The top manufacturers , Sanyo and Schott are going to struggle to compete on price with a load of the Chinese rubbish flooding the market. Customers will need to be a lot more switched on and get hold of the TUV and Oko reports. TUV / EuPD recently tested over 400 manufacturers equipment and awarded a certificate "top brand PV seal " to the top ten brands. If you go much below manufacturer number 28 on the list the equipment is unlikely to last the next five years. That means there are over 350 brands of solar equipment currently on peoples roofs that will fail in a short time. As an example Suntech were bottom of the OKO report out of fifteen brands but loads of installers promote them because they are very cheap and therefore more profitable.
    The recent stupidity by the government resulted in massive equipment shortages and inflated prices which resulted in far more crap equipment installs before the deadline but will cause major headaches for those that are left long term.

    The whole idiotic install rush is going to happen again in March when the public realise that some properties will never acheive the energy rating and therefore PV will be a now or never for them. The last six weeks was just a dress rehearsal.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2011
     
    Do you have a link to the TUV/OKO/EuPD report ?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2011
     
    Try this ST, I just quickly scanned over some detail from the TÜV Rheinland website and I read that the module manufacturers had to pay for the tests which were, "quite expensive", so maybe this could explain some companies being unwilling to participate. I have no idea where PV magazine originates.

    http://www.pv-magazine.com/pv-test/
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2011 edited
     
    "Why not get more efficient. My favourite installer was taking two days per system this time last year and I am sure that the teams could fit two systems in a day (they went home shortly after lunch after a late start and went off to collect materials during the job)."
    I think you have to be careful here . Yes on some jobs it may be easy to do an install in a day , but corner cutting will probably be required . Low or no maintenance is what your after , so poorly tide cables and insufficient time spent getting the tiles laying well after installing the brackets or cable entry through the roof could cause future problems.
    The fasted I've done was a 3.5kW system on a low pitch with large concrete tiles, no grinding required. Inverter in garage next to board with DC run to inverter, that took 5-6 hours for 5 men on site , 3 on the roof , 2 on the electrics, paperwork testing etc. Add 2 hours for 2 guys getting the kit loaded and to site.
    This is an example of the easiet it can get. Most jobs seem to go into a second day.
    Problem is there's not enough space for too many people on the roof.
    I'd say 3 men for 2 days and you can make a good quality job of it and not be rushing around like a madman.

    "Electricians installing PV as a part of their business. " this along with price reductions in the materials is what will bring the install cost down.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2011
     
    Thanks Owlman, shall have a look later.
  2.  
    A sideways thought on FITs,linking of fitness machines to allow additional home power generation with payback . Giant hamster wheels at Gyms would allow masochists to contribute to provision of power plus help fight the flab in our reported obese society.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2011
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Brianwilson</cite>A sideways thought on FITs,linking of fitness machines to allow additional home power generation with payback . Giant hamster wheels at Gyms would allow masochists to contribute to provision of power plus help fight the flab in our reported obese society.</blockquote>

    As an aside, I've done a fair bit of research on human powered vehicles (specifically boats) and looked closely at using a human/electric hybrid system, either parallel or series. As part of this we did some measurements on the sort of power reasonably fit people can sustain when pedalling. Around 80 to 120 watts seems to be about it for most people, few can put out more than around 200 watts peak. The best cycling athletes can manage about 400 watts for maybe an hour.

    One side effect from measuring electrical power from pedal generators was that it gave the "victims" we used for the experiments a new found respect for the vast amount of electrical power they used in their homes.
    • CommentAuthorGavin_A
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2011
     
    Posted By: jamesingramThe fasted I've done was a 3.5kW system on a low pitch with large concrete tiles, no grinding required. Inverter in garage next to board with DC run to inverter, that took 5-6 hours for 5 men on site , 3 on the roof , 2 on the electrics, paperwork testing etc. Add 2 hours for 2 guys getting the kit loaded and to site.

    best we did recently was 16 panel 4kW jobs on bungalow roofs which took 3 of us 4.5 hours to install.

    we also managed a 26kWp system on a metal roof in 2.5days, plus commissioning the next day, though there were 8 of us on that job, with a spider crane to lift the panels up etc.

    We're now quoting for simple 4kWp jobs with costs for 1 days installation plus a couple of hours commissioning the next day, whereas we were quoting for 2 days installation time. As far as I can tell we're not really cutting corners either, we've just refined our installation process down so that everything's being done as efficiently as possible, nobodies standing around waiting for others to finish so they can get on etc. This only works when the entire team is pretty experienced, takes extra time if I'm working with a trainee for obvious reasons.

    Loading the vans is the killer though. If we were going to be installing as much as we were recently long term I'd have to hire a couple of people specifically to load the vans on the evening when they get back, otherwise it ends up being 12 hour+ days with the van loading at the end.
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