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Renewable Energy: Horse poo

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  1.  
    I have a great friend who has after a long struggle is getting quite busy with running a horse livery yard. Muck is now piling up! it can of course be spread on the fields but is there a better a way? my friend is young and penniless and is trying to to build a business, basically she needs to sort out the mess from 15 horses every day this is horse poo, straw and wood shavings. Spreading on fields may be best but she would love to know if there is a better way? any help gratefully received!!

    Thanks
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeDec 29th 2011 edited
     
    In my village the horse owners pile some in a corner to rot and allow gardners and allotment owners to help themselves when they have too much. The main problem is transporting it. If she has a trailer it shouldn't be hard to find groups willing to help load the stuff. In some areas there are also some commercial fertiliser/mulch companies that will take the stuff.

    However you do have to be very careful because there is a problem with one type of weedkiller that survives the trip through a horse and can ruin a garden or allotment. She will not be popular if that type of weedkiller has been used where her horses graze. See...

    http://apps.rhs.org.uk/advicesearch/Profile.aspx?pid=477

    I gather this stuff was banned for awhile but it was allowed back on the market when the manufacturer introduced a traceability scheme. That hasn't stopped some people in my area (cambridge) having problems...

    http://groups.google.com/group/cam.misc/browse_thread/thread/875e88dba86be723/b5c13e0521c3b108?show_docid=b5c13e0521c3b108
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeDec 29th 2011
     
    Offering horsepoo to gardeners will get rid of it pronto. It's possible to sell it to gardeners but that's much harder work - introduce a fee if it all goes too fast. It's less valuable if mixed in with shavings/bedding. Pure horsepoo is nirvana, ex-bedding is next-best. It does really need to have sat in a pile for at least 6 months to rot, preferably a year if mixed with bedding. Hopefully she has space to pile at one end and have people come take it away from the other end of the row/pile - that's the ideal (rarely achieved in my experince, having collected horsepoo and bedding from a number of sources over the years).
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeDec 29th 2011
     
    A very slow conveyor belt maybe, or lower-tech periodic "McHeaving" as we used to call it at my aunt's stables...

    Rgds

    Damon
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
     
    sell it!! sorts the pennies problem too!
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
     
    My workshop used to be on a livery stables. 24 horses. Neighbouring farmer used to take the stuff away and spread it on his fields. Now that's a symbiotic relationship! :wink:
  7.  
    candlemaker wrote - it can of course be spread on the fields but is there a better a way?

    You could of course sell or give it away as suggested above - but don't forget that the production of the poo took energy (nutrients)out of the pastures. If this is not replaced the pastures will degrade over time, so to aid the sustainability (and to improve) the pastures the best use would be to spread it back on the fields. Don't forget gardeners want it because it makes their veggies grow, but it is doing that at a cost to the grass production - which means more bought in hay.
    Peter
  8.  
    You could turn it into biogas with a simple AD plant which should provide sufficient to keep a car running. The output of the plant would make excellent sterilized compost for garden centres.
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
     
    Peter, a lot of that poo will have been COLLECTED from the fields! What amazed me on first taking residence at the livery yard was the sight of all the girls walking around their respective paddocks picking up their horse's poo and barrowing it back to the collective heap. Not good for horses, apparently.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
     
    That vision is not good for me either, but that is another story.

    Not being a farmer, but isn't there rules about how much and where you can keep manure. Something about it on the Archers, David, the unluckiest farmer ever, had is tank leak and had to contact the EA about spreading it on his fields during the rainy season. Apparently it was caused by badgers, the same vermin that the got prosecuted for killing a few years back when Matt Crawford caught him, who, coincidently, was locked up for financial fraud, unlike Susan Carter Who was done for perjury.

    So how much poo are you allowed to keep in a field?
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011 edited
     
    There are EA and other rules on what you can and can't do with solid manure, as there are with slurry. One of them is to do with prevention of spread of pathogens to food crops which means storing the stuff in a heap for at least 12 months before spreading or using on a garden (although the latter would be OK to use sooner if it were just for roses or shrubs). I believe there are also time restrictions on when stuff can be spread on fields, too.

    Slurry is pretty evil when it gets into watercourses, as it rapidly depletes water oxygen levels, killing other wildlife. There are stringent regulations (and big fines for breaking them) when it comes to slurry containment and treatment. Gone are the days when you could spray slurry willy-nilly, you are now pretty tightly restricted if there are any watercourses nearby.
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
     
    When I used to keep horses (7) we could not even give the stuff away but people were prepared to pay for it if I collected it, bagged it and delivered it!!!. I would agree that 12 months is about right to let it "mature" as if its too new it can burn foliage. I would suggest that it she has the time, room and transport she could sell it locally to help with her income stream.
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
     
    There are two large (concrete bunker-type) areas in which the muck is kept at the livery yard. One is left to mature down whilst the other is filled, so there is rotation there. The stuff was spread on the stubble and ploughed in along with muck from the farm, there was never enough from the yard to do a whole field anyway (around the yard there were four fields of about 20 acres each, all arable), even from 24 horses and any straw bedding that got cleared out with the mucking out, it just saved the farmer a few trips back to the farm.
  14.  
    The poo has to be collected not because it is bad for the horses but because thistles et al love it and what was once a beautiful green pasture will quickly become a field of thistles if the poo is left where it falls.
    • CommentAuthorwindy lamb
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
     
    Horse poo is no where near as good as sheep or cow poo because horses are very inefficient grazing animals, whereas the rumen of the sheep/cow breaks the grass down more effectively releasing more nutrients. Better for the grazer and the pasture because those nutrients are released into the soil quicker - that's why you have to rot horse poo before spreading.
    Thistles etc spread so quickly in horse paddocks because horses are such poor grazers and horse owners are such poor pasture managers.

    Back to the question:
    I know of a livery yard where they have a poo pile which, as it is allowed to rot, is home to thousands of worms, Bramlings I think they're called. Anyway, every week a young lad digs over the rotting pile and fills loads of little white polystyrene tubs with the worms. He then sells them to the local fishing shop. Apparently he gets well paid and the poo pile rots quicker cos it's dug over so much. Last time I looked a tub of 40 worms was about £2.50.:cool:
    • CommentAuthorseascape
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
     
    Agree a year to rot down. At the stables where I used to work we pitch forked the dirty straw bedding into a walled enclosure in the yard, 3m x 4m and about 1m high. It used to get to about 2m high and we had to clamber up it to flatten it out - thing is it was steaming as the centre gets hot as it breaks down. So how about growing stuff in trays on top (think winter salad/pineapples!!?)- you could make portable plastic covers - sell the veg, then sell the well rotted manure at the end.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: seascape</cite>Agree a year to rot down. At the stables where I used to work we pitch forked the dirty straw bedding into a walled enclosure in the yard, 3m x 4m and about 1m high. It used to get to about 2m high and we had to clamber up it to flatten it out - thing is it was steaming as the centre gets hot as it breaks down. So how about growing stuff in trays on top (think winter salad/pineapples!!?)- you could make portable plastic covers - sell the veg, then sell the well rotted manure at the end.</blockquote>

    I have a feeling that the Victorians did this ( used the heat from rotting manure to heat growing beds). I can't remember where I saw it, but think it was down in Cornwall, maybe the gardens at Heligan? On another tack (no pun intended) maybe you could put a heat pump collector around a manure heap and use it as a heat source for space heating or hot water.............
    • CommentAuthorJoiner
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
     
    • CommentAuthorTerry
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
     
    If you took the heat out for whatever use such as JSH's suggestion above, would this slow down the decomposition significantly??
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Terry</cite>If you took the heat out for whatever use such as JSH's suggestion above, would this slow down the decomposition significantly??</blockquote>

    I think it would if you cooled the centre of the heap, but I was thinking (somewhat light-heartedly) of capturing the heat that would normally just be lost from the outside/top of the heap. Perhaps a big, well-insulated, box built around the heap, with heat collecting pipes around the inside face of the box.
    • CommentAuthorTerry
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
     
    Appreciate where you are coming from JSH and likewise just wondered about the heat - is it just a bye-product of decomposition or does it also contribute to the process - presume it must help the bugs in some way by establishing an ideal environment for them?
  22.  
    would this slow down the decomposition significantly??

    Yes, take out enough heat and the decomposition will virtually stop. It is not just a bye-product but an essential part of the process.
    One reason for keeping the heat in the composting material is that the heat will kill off most weed seeds and pathogens. So when it is spread on the land there will be minimum chance of spreading weeds and parasites.
    If monoculture of animals is undertaken then regular worming will be necessary regardless of removing poo from the fields or not.
    Thistles in pastures are not the fault of animals that are poor grazers but rather owners that are poor grassland managers. Horses will thrive on poor quality pasture that will leave many grazing animals short of nutrition. One might even say that as far as different grazing animal types and various types of pasture goes its horses for courses!!!!!
    Brief rules for pasture management - don't over stock, remove animals when pasture is grazed down, top (cut) pasture to remove seed heads of weeds - chain harrow to break up manure clumps - rest pasture before returning animals.
    12 months is needed before manure is spread on the fields unless is is turned to airate then it can be done in 3 months (especially if it is kept wet) ref windy lamb's post above!
    Slurry is obnoxious stuff and should be banned.
    How much to put on the land - arable land 50 ton / ha / year, extensive pasture, what the animals leave behind, intensive pasture depends on use, up to arable land quantities.
    Sustainablely managing pasture will be difficult for a struggling start-up business because the temptations to over stock and cut down on grass land management succumb to the financial pressures of life.
    Peter
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
     
    JSH, is this the answer to your other thread re small heat source required for your new build?
    •  
      CommentAuthorJSHarris
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2011
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: joe90</cite>JSH, is this the answer to your other thread re small heat source required for your new build?</blockquote>

    Hmmmm.......... I can see it now, build a well-insulated basement, fill it with horse poo and reap the rewards of a nice warm floor................
  25.  
    With the steam rising gently through the floor boards if the VCL was incorrectly installed
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeDec 31st 2011 edited
     
    There were greenhouses heated in the winter by the method at the Hidden gardens of Helligan and likely many others round the country, I have net seen or heard it being used to heat houses. The escaping smells could be a big drawback.
    • CommentAuthormw116
    • CommentTimeDec 31st 2011
     
    For using compost as a heat source, look at this...

    http://onestrawrob.com/?p=1308

    Using horse manure as a gardening heat source used to be quite popular, and a lot of my (older) gardening books mention its use in the construction of 'hot beds' - give it 6-8 weeks to mature, then shove a cold frame on the top and grow tropical fruit in the resulting heat. Of course, in Victorian days there used to be a decent supply of it...
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeDec 31st 2011 edited
     
    Posted By: mw116Of course, in Victorian days there used to be a decent supply of it


    I have a feeling that there are more horses in the UK now than there has ever been, and bicycles. Probably more 'real fires' too. The Golden Age probably wasn't :wink:
    • CommentAuthorTerry
    • CommentTimeDec 31st 2011
     
    I suspect there was a larger amount of horse poo relative to the population - or per crapita as it were.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJan 1st 2012
     
    Google and ebay have wide range of prices for rotted horse poo. There are companies set up to deliver it in bulk bags or similar sized pallet from £70 (inc local delivery) to £200 (nationwide). On ebay some people are selling it as low as £30 for two cubic meters plus free delivery to local postcodes. I think a lot would depend on what supply and demand is like locally and what equipment the OP has. I wouldn't want to have to load a ton of horse poo onto a trailer for £30 by hand for a living. Might be different if there was a JCB and a trailer available already.

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