Green Building Forum - which windturbine?

which windturbine?

katys — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 11:05:05 +0000

We're coming to the end of our house rebuild and may have some money available for a wind turbine (insulation, draft proofing etc already done). We have planning permission for a Proven 6kW on a 15m mast, which seem to have been replaced by the Kingspan KW6 following the takeover from what I can find via Google. Presumably I'd need to vary the planning permission for this or another turbine make, is this right

The windspeed is 5.6m/s at 10m for our grid ref, although may be higher as we're positioned towards the top of the hill, close to a small commercial windfarm (possibly soon to be a huge one if they get planning permission).

I'd be grateful for any thoughts/experience on whether the KW6 is any good (looks very similar to the previous Proven one) or alternative recommendations, ideally MCS approved. Given the proposed cut in FITs I guess we need to make a decision quickly.

which windturbine?

SteamyTea — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 11:08:06 +0000

The Proven 6kw was/is a reliable little runner, just did not scale up well to 5kW. Loads down here in Cornwall that just seem to keep going and going.

which windturbine?

Ed Davies — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 11:55:35 +0000

Posted By: SteamyTeaThe Proven 6kw was/is a reliable little runner...

Do you mean the small one, 2.5 or 3.2 or whatever it was called?

which windturbine?

katys — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 14:47:06 +0000

No, the medium sized one they did: Proven WT6000 (6kW) turbine.

There's quite a few around here too that people seem to be happy with, but as they don't seem to be available anymore any suggestions on alternatives?

Many thanks.

which windturbine?

Ed Davies — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 15:27:33 +0000

Posted By: SteamyTeaThe Proven 6kw was/is a reliable little runner, just did not scale up well to 5kW.

Ah, I get it. ST means "did not scale up well to 15 kW".

which windturbine?

windy lamb — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 17:20:51 +0000

katys -I think the Proven 6kW is the same as the Kingspan 6kW - the latter just bought out the design and I think that's why it was MCS accredited as soon as the name changed. I think that if you have PP for a Proven 6kW then that would cover the Kingspan 6kW since they are the same in all but name - all the visual and noise stuff is the same so the planning should be fine - just confirm with planning Dept first. It would be incredibly churlish of them to require an application. Just make sure you give them a full explanation as they can be a bit dim about these things.

Only thing is that your wind speed is a bit low at 5.6 (is this measured or from a wind speed map) and you will probably be disappointed with your generation or lack there of. Ask on this forum about owners actual generation at similar wind speeds before you spend all that money.

which windturbine?

SteamyTea — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 19:56:39 +0000

Posted By: Ed DaviesAh, I get it. ST means "did not scale up well to15 kW".

Yes, sorry, the number 1 key on my keypad is a bit dodgy. Not sure what has fallen down there over the years, seems to happen to all my keyboards.

which windturbine?

idp — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 19:57:49 +0000

An alternative to the Proven/Kingspan 6kw is the Evance 5kw.

which windturbine?

katys — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:05:02 +0000

Thanks, I thought the KW6 looked rather familiar! Is the Evance 5kW any good then?

Our wind speed is map based rather than measured. I suspect (hope) it will be more than this given that this is based on a 1 square mile area and we're probably in the best position within that square mile, but accept estimated and measure are often significantly different. I had hoped we'd have time to measure it first, but other things (the house rebuild) got in the way.

I hate feeling under pressure to jump on the microgeneration wagon quickly before they cut the FIT and am torn between waiting and measuring the wind speed to confirm it's actually worth it, accepting the lower tariff or risking it and just going for it. I also feel a little uneasy about the whole FIT set up with people like me with disposable income benefiting above many others arguably more deserving (including the growing number in fuel poverty), but then the system is there to be used, so... Maybe there are better things I can do with the money??

Many thanks,
Katy

which windturbine?

DamonHD — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 21:38:27 +0000

Do all the insulation and conservation stuff.

The government is borrowing your money (you nasty middle-class person you) to build infrastructure and save fuel, rather than letting you spend it on nasty bling and alcohol.

In other words I don't give much time to some of the inverted snobbery associated with FiTs any more than the nastiness I saw around me as a kid when I was picked on for being 'posh' (though more a 'local' than many of them). Ignore it, and do the right thing IMHO.

Rgds

Damon

which windturbine?

katys — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 09:56:10 +0000

But what is the right thing? That's the tricky bit!

(already done the insulation, draft proofing and conservation stuff as part of the house rebuild)

-Katy

which windturbine?

DamonHD — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 10:31:28 +0000

What you're doing by the sound of it: cut your carbon footprint by any reasonable means available to you, even while others carp and do nothing positive...

Rgds

Damon

which windturbine?

SteamyTea — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 10:56:25 +0000

Reduction every time.

which windturbine?

windy lamb — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 20:06:43 +0000

I looked at the Evance 5kW for my site (5.1m/s at 10m from map, measured 4.5m/s at 8m over 12 months) but at those wind speeds it was not economic - apparently a good turbine and the best production for the 5-6kW class but still not enough. I did have a survey and quote for the Evance -they said it would produce about 9,000kWhrs per year at 5m/s and on a 12m pole would cost Â£29,500 (so about 11 years to break even).

During my research I was repeatedly advised that the smaller the turbine the higher the wind speed needed to be for it to be economic. However, the Gaia did add up on paper and has produced over 21,000 kWhrs in the 8 months I've had it (about a 6-7 year break even).

You may have planning permission but you don't have to use it.

which windturbine?

SteamyTea — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 20:22:51 +0000

Posted By: windy lambDuring my research I was repeatedly advised that the smaller the turbine the higher the wind speed needed to be for it to be economic

This tends to be true for a few reasons in my opinion.
Large manufacturers are dealing with large companies with very tight contractual obligations, if they dish out bull the penalties will be pretty serious.
They also have the technical ability to design a better turbine and may have option to change blades for different wind regimes, in effect putting a turbine that is best matched to the location.
Small manufacturer can't afford to do this.
Then there is the on site survey, they do not rely on on a crude database of windspeeds but probably monitor for a few years, with better equipment.
Finally the physics comes into play, large turbines are higher up in higher mean speeds with less turbulence.
And the big one is that doubling the diameter quadruples the swept area.
All in all, turbines should be as large and as high as possible, would need less of them as well. I don't know why we much about will little 2MW ones when we could be putting in 5MW ones.

which windturbine?

Nick Parsons — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 20:47:05 +0000

''Our wind speed is map based rather than measured. I suspect (hope) it will be more than this given that this is based on a 1 square mile area and we're probably in the best position within that square mile, but accept estimated and measure are often significantly different. I had hoped we'd have time to measure it first, but other things (the house rebuild) got in the way. ''

Katy, if it's the (ex DTI) database you mean, google Warwick Wind Trials for real case-study data on how actual wind-speeds compared to database assumptions. Some of the results were scary!

which windturbine?

ted — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 21:47:53 +0000

This report is a must-read as well http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Publications2/Generate-your-own-energy/Location-location-location-domestic-small-scale-wind-field-trial-report

which windturbine?

gustyturbine — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:02:40 +0100

Two lines of text posted by gustyturbine has been removed by the moderator as it was unnecessarily rude.

A simple "please stop posting advertising" would have been more appropriate.

which windturbine?

JSHarris — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:09:28 +0100

One line of text posted by JSHarris has been removed by the moderator as it was unnecessarily blunt.

A simple "please stop posting advertising" would have been more appropriate.

which windturbine?

gustyturbine — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:11:44 +0100

Are you making friends JS?
Virus I tell you, just look out.

which windturbine?

JSHarris — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:14:43 +0100

One paragraph of has been text removed by the moderator as it was offensive.

A simple "please stop posting advertising" would have been more appropriate.

which windturbine?

nigel — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 20:53:42 +0100

I am not sure which is worse the spamming or the offensive language by people who don't like it.

If it carries on I will be off this forum too.

which windturbine?

JSHarris — Mon, 23 Apr 2012 21:08:18 +0100

Posted By: nigelI am not sure which is worse the spamming or the offensive language by people who don't like it.

If it carries on I will be off this forum too.

One paragraph of text posted by JSHarris has been removed by the moderator as it was unnecessarily blunt.

A simple "please stop posting advertising" would have been more appropriate.

which windturbine?

Joiner — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 08:34:03 +0100

which windturbine?

JSHarris — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:15:22 +0100

Personally I'm not convinced that spamming a forum that requires membership is ever accidental, it seems to be a common ploy used by the ruthless to get their website up the search engine rankings. Like you, I've seen one or two previously great forums get badly disrupted by becoming havens for spammers - ebuild being a good example, it's never recovered from being reorganised and then spammed to death.

I agree that if Alex wants to start again, without all the advertising, then that seems a sensible thing to do.

which windturbine?

ted — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:21:08 +0100

Austen's 'Sense and Sensibility' was originally titled "Elinor and Marianne" after the two sisters who are the main protagonists. It refers to the somewhat opposite personalities of each of them.

Opposite personalities being somewhat in evidence here at the moment.

which windturbine?

Joiner — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:34:20 +0100

which windturbine?

DamonHD — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:50:38 +0100

As to engineers using industrial language: I've been meddling in some work on the local school's roof and keep remembering just too late that's it's not the ideal venue to express forceful opinions using the full gamut... And I'm not even a real engineer.

Rgds

Damon

which windturbine?

JSHarris — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 09:57:25 +0100

Posted By: tedAusten's 'Sense and Sensibility' was originally titled "Elinor and Marianne" after the two sisters who are the main protagonists. It refers to the somewhat opposite personalities of each of them.

Opposite personalities being somewhat in evidence here at the moment.

You're right, it all comes down to how we individually view this forum.

I think of it as being a bit like a pub, where pretty much anything can be discussed in a fairly open and friendly way between friends, or at least acquaintances that share a common interest. It's probably because of this that I view people who barge in here with advertising for their business as their first posts in the way I would if a pushy salesman walked in to a pub, interrupted a pleasant conversation, and started trying to sell the customers stuff.

which windturbine?

SteamyTea — Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:37:31 +0100

Rotters and cads make good substitutes.