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Commercial build: Barn/Nursery conversion update

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      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    This is my latest layout (only version 57:shocked::shamed:)

    What do you think?
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    Will this work?
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    'Tis my Barn (in case you couldn't guess:wink:)
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    I am bit dubious about your layout from a fire regs point of view. You must be ale to escape from a room into a fire protected space.
    Rooms that escape through other rooms are not allowed. On the ground floor you would need to have escape windows at the very least in these rooms.
    From the diagram this does not appear to be the case.

    Often lots of space is lost to corridors for this very reason.

    Looks smaller than I was expecting , what are the external dimensions?
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    16.6m by 10m external

    So the Kitchen/staff room & offcie would need escape windows hmmm

    What about the loos?
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    I recognize those hills. Looks like Lincolnshire.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    Biff - I'm in Norfolk .....there aren't any hills.

    It's very flat
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    Dont know I am not an expert but I would expect so. Just looked at the regs again and its not clear if you would be able to use a window as an escape route in non domestic buildings..

    There is also a maximum escape distance to a protected space.

    I think you need to have someone look at your plans and give you sound advice or go and have an informal chat with the building inspector.

    My guess is thatt may be easier to have the protected space(entrance) half way along the building so that you can access most of these rooms from that space.

    I think you are going to need help from someone used to doing this sort of thing who knows the regs inside out.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    Bugger:cry:
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    That's why I need an architect:angry:
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    sorry but fire regs are a complete pain in non residential buildings and I think you need advice sooner rather than later.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    It already is later

    Damn
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007 edited
     
    Well, even in Norfolk, I don't think you should panic. You have a situation where an 'inner room' leads into an 'access room'. This is acceptable so long as several conditions are met - and I think your situation meets them. You can download the Building Regulations part B from:
    http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/professionals/en/1115314683691.html" rel="nofollow" >http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/professionals/en/1115314683691.html
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    What's an access room (Is that a room with a door?)

    Do I have to read it all?
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    Your big room is an 'access room', your staff room, kitchen and loos are inner rooms.
    Just read the section about Horizontal Escape - much cheaper than getting it wrong.
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    Biff I hope your right but in my experience the fire regs always throw up a few unexpected surprises.

    A visit to see your building inspector to discuss is a must before you go too far.
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    Oh without a doubt. Talk to BCO before spending real money. But I don't think Katy needs to despair just yet.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    So do I speak to Building Control or do I send the picture to Amazon Nails & let them worry about it?
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    No you need to speak informally to the BCO. Give them a ring and ask for a pre application chat and reassure them that you plan to use them to carry out the inspections.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    .......???.........who else would I use (& why?)
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007 edited
     
    Katymac, you're at the point where your choice can end up with something stunning, imaginative, inspirational, full of space and light, of rare quality therefore having premium financial value, as well as practical and top-energy-rated; or something merely practical but mundane and forgetable, like the vast majority of buildings. So far it looks like the latter! You've a clean slate, a potentially decent building in a decent-looking location, and an adequate budget, now we've saved you extensive demolition, new trusses, ripoff asbestos removal etc. You gotta get a talented young architect! All these practical matters are trivial compared to that, and will get worked out, no problem.
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    You dont have to use the local authority for building regs but most smaller contractors do. There are numerous private sector organisations that also do building control work.
    But the the local authority will not want to waste their time with you if they think you might get someone else to do the formal application.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    I WANT ONE

    Honest I do

    I have really tried

    Honest I have

    I think I must sound about 12 and a half on the phone - why else would they ignore me or laugh at me

    I have £115K of money, I have a building, I have an idea & a sound business plan

    I feel so stupid sometimes - it con't be that difficult to do this

    So far I haven't saved the Asbestos money as every time I speak to Building control they ask what I have done with the asbestos............
    The trusses are awaiting a structural engineer to certify or comdem them......and the demolition is still under discussion

    FIND ME AN ARCHITECT PLEASE (sorry to shout - but I did/do try)
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2007
     
    sorry:shamed:
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeMar 14th 2007
     
    Have you tried looking for an architectural technician. They would be a lot cheaper and perfectly good for what you need.

    http://www.biat.org.uk

    There are quite a few listed for Norfolk.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeMar 14th 2007
     
    Wierd, someone should be biting your arm off for this project - either they're getting warning signals or you've just been unlucky. I'd offer myself but I'm really west country. You say you've tried the Green Building Bible listings - the 2 listed for Herts look interesting. Previous editions of GBB list more, when it listed all AECB members, before Keith went independent. I could give you some of them if nec. The AECB site lists members but it's not clear what services they offer - and I'm NOT ON IT I discover - what the.....? Why not post on the AECB Forum and on this one specifically asking for architect recommendations? If all else fails, there's RIBA East Region - they are set up to find you an Architect. Ring the contact person and describe your needs. For competence and practicality, an Architectural Technician shd be gd - but you + Amazon Nails can probably achieve that. For "something stunning, imaginative, inspirational, full of space and light, of rare quality therefore having premium financial value, as well as practical and top-energy-rated", then that's what an Architect's supposed to do, though you do have to choose carefully. You seem to me the ideal client, in that you've gone into it all as intensely as you are capable, have much to say on every aspect, and are therefore equiped to recognise the amazing synthesis, when it's offered, that satisfies all your requirements plus much more than you ever dreamed of. If you don't get that unexpected "plus much more", then you might as well employ an Architectural Technician or Amazon Nails to draw-up for you. How to choose talent? Intuition, trust - I think you'll know the right person when you find him/her.
  27.  
    Katymac, looking at your plan, which way is south and how are you proposing to support the roof i.e. have you got existing trusses which can be reused or do you need a new support structure?
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMar 14th 2007
     
    Up is south.....iyswim

    I am hoping to get a structural engineer to look at the trusses to see if they can be re used............but realistically I expect to need new trusses
  29.  
    I like your layout and I think it would work well. Should get lots of light and passive solar gain into the main play area early in day. Kitchen next the staff room a good idea - maybe an inter connecting door to stop hot brews being carried through the main room with kids running round? Office near the entrance seems sensible for dealing with parental queries etc.

    I was wondering if you were planning to use Masonite I-section beams for the roof with Warmcel insulation? You usually fit a ridge purlin when using these and the beams are then usually stiff enough to spaan unsupported from the ridge to the external walls giving you a clear span in the roof in case you wanted to use it in the future for additional rooms or storage. With your building being 16 metres long I wonder if this is too long a span for a glu-lam beam or too expensive even if possible? Perhaps someone with experience of using these can help???

    I was thinking that if you constructed your internal partitions in blockwork then these could act as supporting walls and reduce the unsupported span and hence the beam size (and cost). You have an internal partition passing under the ridge at the west end of the building but not the east. Perhaps some kind of truss part way along would do the job?
    •  
      CommentAuthorKatymac
    • CommentTimeMar 20th 2007
     
    Gosh Chris - I must have missed your message sorry - I'm not sure I underastand all of it.............but I'll do some googling

    Would the internal partitions be cheaper in studwork (is that the right word?) or blockwork?

    Tea making facilities in staff room - safer that way:wink:

    I came back to say I have been promised an ARCHITECT - I'm so excited

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