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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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  1.  
    Hello,

    We're considering laying so-called solid wood flooring on our ground floor - placed on top of that green cellulose board stuff which would be on top of the existing mix of concrete and suspended timber.

    We spotted some nice pine floorboards at B&Q, but the chap there said we'd get condensation if we did as I've described. He then said it would be ok if we bought those small multi-sized tongue & groove solid wood floor bits they sell. Now I'm confused; wood is wood surely, and in terms of condensation behaves similarly whether in 6 foot or 1 foot lengths?

    Is it also the case that we need to lay the wood at 90 degrees to the original floor boards? This is inconvenient, as obviously we'd like to follow the joists for nailing in such flooring.

    Any help/opinions much appreciated.

    Paul
    • CommentAuthoredwinvanek
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2007
     
    I have used the long lengths of solid pine flooring from Wickes before as a floating floor on the green boards, on a concrete floor. It worked fine and the advantage of this system is that the wood can contract and expand with the seasons. After about a year there were gaps of a couple of milimeters between the ends of the wood caused by shrinking, which I was able to correct partially. As long as there is ventilation under your existing floorboards there shouldn't be a problem with condensation. There also shoudln't be any difference between short and long pieces of wood. The only difference is with layered flooring or flooring layed in varying directions as less or more evenly expanion and shrinking in all directions wirll take place. I would leave the flooring to dry for a long time before nailing it to the joists. It would probably be better to use reclaimed timber for this, as it should dry as it will get.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2007
     
    You can lay your new flooring in any direction that you like over the top of existing.
    • CommentAuthorTheDoctor
    • CommentTimeJan 3rd 2008
     
    if you are planning to expose these new pine floorboards, beware.

    Modern pine, the likes of which is stocked at B&Q is quick growing, and therefore softer than older soft woods due to wider growth bands in the timber, and will show furniture and traffic marks far quicker.

    We have bought a reclaimed floor which was otherwise heading for a skip, and this will be laid and fully bonded to a concrete floor with UFH. Similar price to new boards, but 150 odd years old, so much tougher. WHen sanded back - it will be as good as new. Another advantage is that it has had 150 years to dry out, so is more dimensionally stable than new timbers.

    you also have the opportunity to use some beautiful rarer timbers that would be considered extremely 'un-green' if they were new.
    In my book, there is nothing wrong with recycling Burmese Teak, for example. It would be a decidedly unwise choice today, both environmetally and politically, but if it is my floor or a skip........

    just a thought or two
    • CommentAuthorStuartB
    • CommentTimeJan 3rd 2008
     
    If laying in a hallway you should lay these boards away from you i.e. not across a narrow walkway. This will make your hall more spacious and the boards less vulnerable to wear and tear. I personally wouldn't go for pine as too soft and easily damaged - use a hardwood such as french oak. You can get this for about £20sqm if you shop around. Also leave for about 3 weeks in the room where you are going to lay it before securing to floor.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJan 3rd 2008
     
    Perhaps the salesman thought the concrete was new? There shouldn't be a condensation problem if the floor is insulated and the concrete has had time to cure (1 day per mm thickness and some for luck).
    • CommentAuthorBowman
    • CommentTimeJan 4th 2008
     
    I suspect the sales man was pointing you in the direction of "engineered" flooring, this is solid wood in the sense that it is constructed of either ply with a veneer finish or a cheaper wood such as havea with either a veneer or stained to match the real thing. If you have any doubt go for the ply with the veneered face, it's much easier to lay and more stable in less than perfect conditions than proper tree wood.

    It sounds to me as though you have a mixed floor of concrete and suspended timber, be careful as these can react differently over the seasons and very often be different in level with a lip at the edge of the concrete, often by only a few mm but enough to have an effect, particularly if the concrete is solid with no damp proof (pre 60's).

    Real wood (not ply) shrinks mostly over its width, ie across the grain, for this reason the boards should be laid parallel to the longest side. Regarding shrinkage, this is common to the vast majority of wood that can buy, modern processing involves heating the wood in an oven to reduce the moisture content down to 15% to 8%, this doesn't however fully season the wood, over the next year or so the cellular structure of the wood slowly contracts. this will show itself in a couple of ways depending on the wood, you will definitely find the wood shrinking sideways, but you may also find that the grain stands out more particularly in way of knots.

    Try to lay the floor on an average day, and seal it as soon as possible with one primer and three finish, having seen a hall floor laid on a very dry day then left to soak up atmospheric humidity through a very wet month before sealing lift by 25mm over 1.2m this is really vital.
  2.  
    If you use an underlayment that contains a kind of DPM (recommended on concrete floors) on existing floorboards, than the salesman is right: that can cause condensation between underlayment and existing suspended timber.

    It's always recommend to create one type of underfloor. http://woodyoulike.typepad.com/tips/2006/09/one_type_of_und.html
    In your case it could be to lay (diagonal) sheets of hardboard first on both types of underfloors. This also solves the problem of installing the new boards in the same direction of the old floor. I would use a 3mm foam underlayment next and install the boards floating, glueing the T&G's properly
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